October 26, 2017 11:20 am at 11:20 am #1390284KotlorismParticipant
So first we covered up molestation and sexual abuse for 50 years. That didn’t work. So now that Trump has declared the Opioid crisis to be a nationwide public health emergency, can we finally at the very least acknowledge that our communities- every single one of them – has a roaring crisis on our hands?
Litvish, Chassidish, Sephardic – from Kiryas Joel to Deal to Lakewood to New Square this crisis is tearing families apart. The 12 step programs are packed with frum people of all ages. Grown frum men. Young boys and girls, married frum woman. Itt’s affecting everyone.
Thanks to Amudim for coming to the forefront and helping thousands, but when we come together as a community and really acknowledge that we have a problem?October 26, 2017 12:31 pm at 12:31 pm #1390334lesschumrasParticipant
Speak to frum therapists in Flatbush and they’ll tell you you full their caseloads are. A few years ago I was in Salt Lake City. The Chabad rabbi told us that the nearby drug treatment facility had over 25 frum kids from brooklyn, Monsey, Lakewood, Long Island, LA and other frum areas. Why Utah? It’s the only state that permits underage children to be committed involuntarily by their parens.
It’s a big problemOctober 26, 2017 12:57 pm at 12:57 pm #1390345akupermaParticipant
Abusing prescription drugs requires a great deal of stupidity. If it was only among hasidim, one could suggest the need for more medical personnel who spoke Yiddish and wrote the instruction in Yiddish. If it was only in the frum community, we could blame it on poor secular education. It appears that the problem is common among most Americans, at least most whites, including affluent well-educated ones, so it seems the great secular education that some Yidden envy is quite flawed. One doesn’t need to be a Talmud Chacham, or a graduate of an Ivy League college, to realize that if you can only get a drug by prescription, there is a reason for it being restricted, and you should follow the instructions on the bottle.October 26, 2017 1:44 pm at 1:44 pm #1390361JJ2020Participant
What % of of the frum tzibur are addicted without a legitimate need.October 26, 2017 2:29 pm at 2:29 pm #1390446apushatayidParticipant
“over 25 frum kids from brooklyn, Monsey, Lakewood, Long Island, LA and other frum areas.”
I’m not saying it is, or isnt a problem, but, this statement proves nothing except, over 25 frum kids from brooklyn, Monsey, Lakewood, Long Island, LA and other frum areas (under the age of 18 – I infer this from the comment about Utah) are being treated for addiction. Do you have any idea how many frum kids (under the age of 18) there are in the frum areas you mentioned,. Lets say there are 25,000, 25 kids out of 25,000 is .001. If 1/10 of 1 percent of kids are being treated for addiction, is that an exploding crisis? Certainly to their families it is, but, to the community at large? If one wishes to cite statistics or anecdotes, at least cite something that makes sense.October 26, 2017 2:29 pm at 2:29 pm #1390458
Statistics are irrelevant. To the person who is addicted, it is 100%.
Opioid are medications that are used for specific conditions. The common ones are pain and cough. It is widely recognized in the medical field that dependency is a problem, and there are supposed to be efforts made to avoid that. It is certainly an issue that someone that begins to use opiates legitimately has a risk of developing dependency. There are cases in which this unfortunate development is the lesser of the evils (or at least judged so), and the approach is to maintain the person on these drugs to avoid the alternatives. There are also medications available today that are used as maintenance drugs, that fill the body’s need for the “fix” while hopefully decreasing the other risks of overdose. Long shpiel, and outside the scope of this thread. But the other implication is that the prescribing physician that ignores the risk of addiction is plainly irresponsible.October 26, 2017 2:35 pm at 2:35 pm #1390467FreddyfishParticipant
Theyre opening new rehabilitation center in boro park hope it helpsOctober 26, 2017 2:35 pm at 2:35 pm #1390468KotlorismParticipant
More than 80 people have overdosed and DIED in less than one year (since Jan 2017) – All from Frum communities.
besides why are you all busy with boys and girls on drugs? Do you know how many times Hatzolah has used Narcan in the past 12 months to adults over the age of 45 in our communities?October 26, 2017 3:19 pm at 3:19 pm #1390542
JMO opening one up in Borough park is a bad idea. people who are addicted need to get out of their community and away from EnablersOctober 26, 2017 3:19 pm at 3:19 pm #1390555gavriel613Participant
I don’t understand why people get so surprised at the idea that Yidden can have the same issues which plague everyone else. Why should only goyim get addicted or have taavos etc. Just because we should strive to be perfect doesn’t mean we all areOctober 26, 2017 3:28 pm at 3:28 pm #1390561
Who taught you how to interpret statistics? You are way off with your math about the 25 being treated in Utah. Firstly, there are hundreds of rehabs around the country. Only a fraction go to Utah. Secondly, these rehabs are only a piece of the picture of available treatment. There are outpatient levels of treatment, and all insurance cases must begin there and fail before being allowed coverage for a residential rehab. Thirdly, the greatest percentage of kids refuse to go to any treatment at all. I’m not sure of numbers here. But to infer percentages on a limited piece of data is grossly irresponsible and erroneous.
Lastly, when there are more cases coming out every single week of serious addictions requiring referral to treatment, and overdose reports are hardly worthy of news coverage (dog bites man), we have a problem. As I noted earlier, I am unsure that designating opioids is of much value, as problems with other drugs is just as bad. Trends with ups and downs are expected.October 26, 2017 3:55 pm at 3:55 pm #1390573☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
More than 80 people have overdosed and DIED in less than one year (since Jan 2017) – All from Frum communities.
140 people die every day from opioid overdose – not specifically from the frum communities. President Trump wants to have it declared a public-health emergency.
Unfortunately, we are not immune to society’s problems.October 26, 2017 3:55 pm at 3:55 pm #1390571☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
Who taught you how to interpret statistics?
He didn’t interpret any statistics. He merely passed along his observation that 25 in a particular rehab center doesn’t tell us how big the problem is or isn’t.October 26, 2017 5:52 pm at 5:52 pm #1390654lesschumrasParticipant
The visit was 9 years ago. If 25 families back then were desperate enough to commit their kids to Utah ( where this was only one such facility; there were frum kids in others ) , who knows how many others there were whose parents either hadn’t reached that stage of desperation. I imagine that in the past 9years, the number of kids has grownOctober 27, 2017 11:14 am at 11:14 am #1390885MenoParticipant
What are opioids?October 27, 2017 12:27 pm at 12:27 pm #1390927apushatayidParticipant
TLIK. I interpreted nothing. I commented, that is someone will cite anecdotes and statistics, they should cite those that make the point. Reading comprehension is apparently, reading comprehension skills are not part of the little you know.October 27, 2017 12:28 pm at 12:28 pm #1390943FreddyfishParticipant
Meno a nice way of saying drugsOctober 27, 2017 1:13 pm at 1:13 pm #1391001MenoParticipant
Meno a nice way of saying drugs
So why don’t they use words that people understand? That would be a good start in addressing the problem.October 27, 2017 1:35 pm at 1:35 pm #1391017
Opiods are drugs derived from Opiom, Mostly notable Heroin , Morphine , most likely Percoset. They are usually used as Pain killers.
Cocaine and Marijuana are not OpinoidsOctober 27, 2017 1:44 pm at 1:44 pm #1391024RealisticguyParticipant
meno…it is not a nice way of saying drugs it is a root form of a certain genre of drugs….for example if someone were to say grapes are an issue to include different types of wine….opiods come from a plant and is the main ingrrdient if differeny types of painkillers(percacet, oxycontin, fentanyl ect)…its also what heroin comes from…October 27, 2017 1:44 pm at 1:44 pm #1391026RealisticguyParticipant
from opiom plants..October 27, 2017 1:53 pm at 1:53 pm #1391031
If you have ever gone to the ER with severe pain like for a Kidney Stone, Gall Stone, C-section , Broken bone or something alone those line you have like be given Percocet (Oxycodone) by your doctorOctober 27, 2017 2:47 pm at 2:47 pm #1391040yehudayonaParticipant
Opium is the correct spelling, but not all opioids come from the opium plant. Many are synthetic. Popular ones are hydrocodone, oxycodone and fentanyl. They are commonly prescribed for pain.October 28, 2017 7:41 pm at 7:41 pm #1391062AshParticipant
[C&P of comment on related news article]
The real reason why opioids are the big problem in our kehillos is because it’s possible for a non-drinking, non-smoking, Torah-learning father of 8 (or bubbe with 20 einiklech, or the shtarkest bochur in yeshiva) to get hooked unintentionally on heroin.
Here’s how: painkillers. The father of 8 is involved in a car accident, the bubbe gets persistent arthritis, the bochur gets a slipped disc dancing at a chasuna. Let’s say they have poor insurance, or great insurance but a overworked doctor. So instead of getting real treatment like expensive physio therapy, the doctor proscribes Oxycodone, oxytocin, or even regular coedine.
The pills provide relief, but they’ve only been given a certain dose and once that’s over the pain returns. The father can’t work, the bubbe can’t enjoy her day, the bochur can’t learn. It’s too much. So they pester the doc for more, or go to a medicine gemach.
In some of the cases, unwittingly they get hooked. Once hooked, they are an addict. They cannot rationalize, cannot control, cannot resist. It’s no longer bechirah, it’s just a uncontrollable need.
The father finds he needs the pills to function, the bubbe thinks there’s nothing wrong with these pills when she takes about 10 pills for other ailments daily anyway and the bochur knows that without pills he’ll feel terribly sick, start shaking and needs to pop another … just to get through another day.
Once the source of pills stop, they discover a guy who’s can give them fen***** and once they discover pills don’t satisfy, they start inhaling, then snorting, then …
It’s a short road from severe pain and accidental dependence on opiod painkillers to heroin.
And it can and does effect “der shentzer in der bester mishpuchos”.
Wake up yidden!October 28, 2017 7:44 pm at 7:44 pm #1391052
You listed true opiates. The list should contain the popular codeine. They are commonly prescribed for pain. Many are also used for cough suppressants. They all have abuse potential.
It is worth noting that doctors who legitimately prescribe these medications tend to over-prescribe. They may intend for it to be taken 3 times a day for a week, which would require 21 doses. It is common practice to prescribe more than that, perhaps if a pill falls and gets contaminated or lost there is a replacement. Regardless, there is no hesitation to prescribe more than is needed, and these medications are rarely discarded even after the condition or symptom has resolved. The pills laying around pose a risk and should be discarded.
With the focus on opiates, attention is diverted from other habit forming medications that are abused just as easily. The barbiturates, often prescribed for anxiety, pain, and seizures, carry abuse potential and are addictive. The same goes for a host of anti-anxiety drugs. Older ones that were popular include Valium and Librium. Newer ones include Ativan, Xanax, and the like. Anything used for either sleep or anxiety should be suspected of having these risks (most do). Many of these meds are often used for chronic conditions, and the liberal prescribing of them makes them risky, not less than the opioids. The dangers of overdose exist with these medications similar to the opioids.
Throw away the medications you no longer need.October 28, 2017 8:57 pm at 8:57 pm #1391076Eliezer8687Participant
20 years ago I attended a lecture by the asst. District attorney in Flatbush. The police had just arrested a frum drug dealer and obtained his roladex which had names of frum kids from every frum area in the tri state region. This has been a problem for a very long time. The same goes for sexual abise,eating disorders and the leaders of the communities biru their heads in the sand. I am afraid it’s too late and it will only get worse before it gets better . My kids range in age from 30 down to 17
Not a and girls they all have friends affected by this.October 28, 2017 10:24 pm at 10:24 pm #1391106
Rabbonim and other community leaders are not just burying their heads in the sand. They suffer from a dramatic level of ignorance. Most cannot repair automobiles, so we are fortunate that most people don’t ask for eitzos about engine trouble. If we would, the damage from these pieces of advice could be costly. If these rabbonim would learn a bit about what drugs are, as well as the nature of addiction, they would be better equipped to respond. But the microscopic knowledge they have on the subject leaves them feeling highly experienced and expert, when in reality they know nothing of the subject. That is not a put down. Every one of us is ignorant about something. As long as we refrain from advising on the subject, we are fine. But if we claim to be capable of guiding someone in a matter where our knowledge is limited, there is a problem. The denial is not only failing to recognize the problem, but believing that they understand it when they really don’t.
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