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July 20, 2011 10:37 pm at 10:37 pm #598121Sender AvMember
I took a class in college last year and there were two other Yids in the class. One, a girl, was a self proclaimed “Atheist”- she meant agnostic. The other was a guy who was proud to be Jewish(assuming his mother is Jewish) and engaged to a shiksa. I was not prepared for kiruv. I invited them both to a Rosh Hashana/Yom Kippur beginners service at my shul. The guy did not come. When I handed the girl the flyer she hesitated and said “I’m not Jewish. Remember? Mommy is”. I said “Its for your mother”.,but she would not take it(she would not take it). I once sent the guy a link to aish.com when he wrote me a letter saying he feels G-D is punishing him for being a bad Jew. I told him too there is no such thing as a bad Jew. We never saw each other after finals. I feel bad I was not able to bring them back and honestly probably did not try hard enough. I partly did not want to force anything on the girl and make her dislike for Hashem or Judaism worse. I didnt want to upset the guy either. How do you do kiruv without insulting, pushing, someone? I still feel guilty and bad a year later. What do I Do?
July 21, 2011 12:45 am at 12:45 am #788509Another nameParticipantWell, in that situation there really is nothing you can do, unless a knew opportunity arises. If you do have the chance to do kiruv in the future, don’t be overbearing. Come across slowly and sincerely. If the person is interested, you can take it from there!
Btw, your title is so sad. You cannot fail unless you fail to try, and you certainly tried hard!
July 21, 2011 1:01 am at 1:01 am #788510kapustaParticipantIts a very touchy situation.
They say with kiruv, one should not give up because it can sometimes take years to take effect. You did what you could, now the only thing to do is daven.
July 21, 2011 1:06 am at 1:06 am #788511basket of radishesParticipantSometimes the strongest Kiruv you can do it not to share the information such as AISH with the prospective lesser observant Jew but to simply be a strong example of a person that they can put their trust into and that they can see as a person who follows Hashem. Don’t expect every non observant Jew to become observant over night and go to Aish and the like for their immediate time after they meet you. In fact, you can have the opposite effect of being annoying and create resentment if you push this on them. Wait until they are ready and are indeed asking for more information. In the mean time, let your light shine and let them know that your way is healthier, more stabile and has G-ds blessings. They might figure it out and if they dont, they will still know you as being strong and intelligent and no matter what they may say or do, they will never be able to topple this impression. That is what Kiruv REALLY is about.
July 21, 2011 1:08 am at 1:08 am #788512basket of radishesParticipantTrue kiruv begins a long lifelong relationship. Don’t expect to hit and run kiruv by saying “go to Aish” and be done with it. Get their email and being a lifelong relationship with someone you want to invest upon your friendship and your knowledge of Torah. This takes a long time and no religious person is created by a hit and run experience with any other yid unless its an extreme case and they were looking to be observant in the first place. Just a thought for you.
July 21, 2011 2:10 am at 2:10 am #788513popa_bar_abbaParticipantThe point of life is not to create more “frum” jews who perform the rituals.
The point is to make kiddush Hashem in the world.
Did you make a kiddush Hashem?
July 21, 2011 2:47 am at 2:47 am #788514oomisParticipantI had an experience in trying to help someone be mekareiv someone else, and it had disastrous results for me. A friend was getting married and having a very small Shabbos Kallah, to which she invited one of her non-religious female co-workers and me. I was specifically invited to serve as an additional frum female role model for this girl (who happened to be a very sweet person, btw).
We were shown to our respective rooms after we finished talking for the evening follwoing the Shabbos meal. I noticed that the girl turned her light on. Not wanting to make her feel bad for doing something that the hostess had actually asked her not to do, I asked her if she would be able to sleep with the light on, and of course she told me it would not be a problem ebcause she would just turn it off again.
Big shot tzadeikess that I was,out to save the world one neshama at a time, I offered to switch rooms with her so she would not turn out the light, which I reminded her our hostess didn’t want her to do. She agreed to the switch – and then she turned the light on and off in MY former room, ebcause she needed it “just for a second.”
So here I was in a room with a bright light on all night, she turned the light on and off in the other room anyway, AND to add insult to injury, there was absolutely no heat in that room, which was more like an indoor porch. It was December, and about 30 degrees. I caught a really bad chest cold that night. That was not the bad part.
The bad part was two days later, when my Bubby who lived with us, caught my bad chest cold, and almost ended up in the hospital because of it. No good deed goes unpunished (fortunately I do not really subscribe to that belief).
Kiruv takes a lot of hard work and should not be viewed lightly. Not everyone is capable of or the right shaliach to be mekareiv another Jew to actually become frum. All we can hope to do is set the right example, be menschen to them and to each other, and hope it rubs off enough for them to want to search further. That is exactly what happened to my husband some 40 years ago.
July 21, 2011 2:59 am at 2:59 am #788515Sender AvMemberPopa, I dont know if I did in this class or not. The teacher cussed once. I covered my ears. People looked at me like I was nuts. It was a theatre appreciation class(took it for easy credits) and I was once teamed up with the other Jewish guy and some other people for a project and he chose to do it on a subject matter really inappropriate. I refused.
Unfortanely in another class of all non-Jews, I became to comfortable with those around me.Not innapropriatly. But we joked around about appropriate subject matter, but I still think it was too much and the teacher who found religion and interesting subject and who I also joked around with was asking me about being Jewish and frum, etc and I said something like “We have to set an example of what it means to be a child /agent of G-D” and she said(not in a mean way)” Well, you certaintly dont do a good job of it in here”. I got the message. OUCH!
July 21, 2011 4:22 am at 4:22 am #788516am yisrael chaiParticipant“Failed”
This reminds me of the Tu B’shvat vort.
Why don’t we celebrate the trees’ birthday when they are blooming in Nissan, way after Shvat?
Shvat is when the seeds are sprouting underground, unseen, undetected.
You, Sender, may indeed have caused some serious sprouting underground vis-a-vis your two classmates.
July 21, 2011 5:49 am at 5:49 am #788517☕ DaasYochid ☕ParticipantI had an experience in trying to help someone be mekareiv someone else, and it had disastrous results for me.
I actually think you made a kiddush Hashem, and as for the chest cold, that’s His cheshbon, not yours.
July 21, 2011 10:07 pm at 10:07 pm #788518Another nameParticipantoomis, so sad and frustrating! But bh you realize that you did your best and it is Hashem that is in control of the world!!!
July 22, 2011 10:08 am at 10:08 am #788519kapustaParticipantoomis: I’m sure what you did had an effect on someone, somewhere. And don’t we say Machshava K’maasah?
AYC: Very nice, thank you for sharing.
July 22, 2011 4:31 pm at 4:31 pm #788520adorableParticipantfirst of all, how can you know if you failed? it can take years until you see the fruits of your labor with this….
I have a co worker (not someone in my office but we are in touch via email all the time) whos Jewish but I dont think shes frum at all. One of my co workers told me that when she emails her she always sends her a link to the aish.com site. I dont because I dont see how that would do anything. I just act courteous to her and nice and try to show her that the ppl that she belongs to are not “that bad”. Its funny because she told me that Im so much easier to deal with- she finds the other co worker to be too pushy
July 22, 2011 5:11 pm at 5:11 pm #788521HaLeiViParticipantKiruv is usually accomplished by the literal meaning, bringing close. I think you did that.
July 22, 2011 8:05 pm at 8:05 pm #788522oomisParticipantAYC, beautiful D”T. Thanks D”Y, A”N, and Kapusta.
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