Falling in Love- a Jewish Concept?

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  • This topic has 67 replies, 30 voices, and was last updated 10 years ago by mdd.
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  • #724609
    Sacrilege
    Member

    No. Its a human concept.

    This is not Jewish vs. Non-Jewish/ Good vs. Bad issue. You havent violated anything if you fall/ fell in love. There is nothing wrong with it.

    Infatuation. So your love has no basis in reality, you’ll date 2-3 times and then it will end. Whats going to happen? Have you violated anything, has anyone gotten hurt, is your Neshoma any less intact?

    Love is an emotion!

    Maybe if people allowed themselves to feel a little before marriage, there would be less divorces after less than a year of marriage.

    #724610
    bein_hasdorim
    Participant

    It is not a jewish concept. At least the physical part.

    As every learned man knows love comes after marriage (or not). 🙂

    It definitely doesn’t come beforehand.

    What you think is love is actually called lust. You can like the person, be excited, about them, click with them and have mutual likes dislikes, similar personalities, that just means you are compatible, but true love comes from giving & sharing life experience, working together & overcoming hardships, etc..

    #724611

    @Sacrilege – thank you!!!

    Finally someone has it right!

    So many people running around trying to prove that they are “better” and “different” from those savages known as the “goyim”

    I guess they dont like to admit to being human

    #724612
    Avram in MD
    Participant

    So many people running around trying to prove that they are “better” and “different” from those savages known as the “goyim”

    Oy, I really don’t think that’s what’s going on here. I think we are all working with different definitions of love.

    The society around us throws the word love around to describe many different feelings, including lust (what most modern songs about “love” are really talking about), infatuation (aka, falling in love, preoccupation), connection/intimacy (the love that G-d willing grows in a marriage), gratification (I “love” burgers and fries).

    I don’t think anyone here has expressed that any of those feelings are inherently “wrong”, but that the non-frum culture wrongfully distorts and confuses them.

    #724613
    bein_hasdorim
    Participant

    Sac, CJP, We Are better spritually but that’s not the point.

    The question is as follows, “are these feelings that one feels, that you all loosely call “Love” translating into Ahavah,

    considered according to Chazal, i.e. The Torah,

    to be Ahavah/True Love or not, and the answer is no

    it is not Ahavah, True Love, the feelings one feels when dating before marriage. Very simply put you are using the wrong word.

    The word Ahava describes something true.

    #724614
    TheGoq
    Participant

    beautiful analogy Avram

    #724615
    Sacrilege
    Member

    No one is saying that “puppy love” is equal to the love of a 95 year old couple who has gone through life together. At the same time it is an honest feeling and emotion, so why discredit that and blame it on religion?

    #724616
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Agree with sacrilege.

    Besides, let’s not forget that Yitzchak “loved” Esav’s food. Apparently, that fits into the definition of love.

    #724617
    bein_hasdorim
    Participant

    kgh5771; To answer your question, we are talking about Yaakov Avinu, B’chir Ha’avos, who’s likeness is ingrained in the Kiseh Hakavod. Surley you don’t think that The V’ayehav means simply falling in love as the term goes.

    The Ohr HaChaim Hakadosh states “Vayehav” after mentioning her beauty to tell us that not because of her beauty was there a

    Vayehav, only because he recognized her as his true Zivug.

    It is utterly atrocious when people take the holy Avos and try to bring them down to their level comparing their own petty thoughs and intentions to the lofty Avos.

    Before the Torah mentions any Ahavah for Rochel it says that

    when he met Rochel Imeinu he cried, & Rashi Hakadosh brings FIRST the reason to explain his crying, was that he saw with Ruach Hakodesh that they would not be buried together in the Meoroh. The second being that he came empty handed.

    Do any of us break down crying when we first lay eyes on our

    Bashert for something we see with Ruach Hakodesh?

    It is understandable that we have to learn lessons from the stories of the Torah & the Avos how to behave etc..

    but How dare any of us bring proof from the very holy lofty

    Tzaddikim by bringing them to our lowly levels.

    #724619
    Avram in MD
    Participant

    popa_bar_abba:

    Is it possible that Yitzchok loved Esav’s food in part because of the kibud av that it showed? Just like we love the cards and drawings our children give to us?

    #724620
    Tzvi Hirsh
    Member

    Yaakov Avinu wanted to marry only Rachael and not Leah. He was tricked and complained to Lavan who agreed that after working 7 more days he can marry Rachel on condition that he would work for her for 7 more years.

    The Holy Torah then tell us that “he loved Rachel EVEN MORE than Leah”. See Bereishis 30 verse 30.

    Why did the Torah have to tell us this fact?

    It seems that it is telling us that being married to a woman for only a week whom he didn’t love or want as a wife changed after being married into LOVE. When the Torah says love it means real love. The holy aspect of marriage has a very definite affect on us.

    #724621
    oomis
    Participant

    “popa_bar_abba:

    Is it possible that Yitzchok loved Esav’s food in part because of the kibud av that it showed? Just like we love the cards and drawings our children give to us? “

    That was CERTAINLY a big part of it.

    #724622
    oomis
    Participant

    (I “love” burgers and fries).”

    My Rov once said to us, When you say you LOVE a good steak (or anyhting else that you enjoy eating), what you are REALLY saying is that you love YOURSELF, so you want to give yourself the reward of eating something that makes you feel happy. But when you love another person in the way that we love our spouse, it is because you want to make THAT person happy.

    #724623
    mdd
    Member

    Tzvi Hirsh, Medrash Rabba says that Ya’akov wanted to divorce Leah before she gave birth to the Shvatim. It also says there that Lavan told his landsleit:” You know, Ya’akov loves Rochel…”. He did not mean the farfrummed,made-up definitions mentiond above.

    #724624
    bein_hasdorim
    Participant

    mdd; “farfrummed,made-up definitions mentiond above”

    whoa! You are absolutely right!

    That’s what lavan thought, who cares what he thought?

    Do you?

    Vayehav Yaakov Es Rochel, For he knew She was his Zivug

    & he knew of her great middos & character.

    Lavan was a dope & though it was what he knew on his lowly level.

    Everyone understands things differently according to their level.

    #724625
    mdd
    Member

    Bein hasedorim, he probably loved her on all the levels. Leah, when she went out to invite Ya’akov to her tent, put on make-up. Why?

    #724626
    mdd
    Member

    And no matter what was the story with Ya’akov Avinu, you are right, his madreiga is not a hiyuv for every Yid.

    #724627
    mdd
    Member

    “Ahavas kala, m’sos dodim…”. What do you say to that?

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