Family Not Traveling Together

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  • #602926

    I have a friend who said that someone we both know – his family when they fly somewhere don’t go all together but rather in two groups because that was what Yaakov did in preperation for the showdown with Eisav, meaning that the whole family shouldn’t be wiped out.

    1 – does anybody know if a)this is a real minhag within any group of Jews b)if yes, which group(s)

    2 – What is the basis for applying Torah-narrative concepts such as this one as a carte blanche principle for all situations, ie here even where there is no reason to believe that there is a reasonable chance at a massacre.

    #868061

    Luna Lovegood
    Participant

    it sounds like the royal family. They never traveled in the same plane together. If one plane crashes the people on the other plane will survive and their will still be an heir to the throne. it doesn’t seem necessary or practical for a family to split up when traveling. from my experiences it just makes the trip worse.

    #868062

    avhaben
    Participant

    I hope this family never all travels in a car or van at the same time. Road travel is more dangerous than commercial air travel.

    #868063

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    it sounds like the royal family. They never traveled in the same plane together. If one plane crashes the people on the other plane will survive and their will still be an heir to the throne.

    Are you talking about the British Throne? The line of succession to the British Throne is about five thousand people long. Even if the entire (current) Royal Family were wiped out in one fell swoop, there would still be an heir to the throne.

    A scenario, such as was depicted in the movie King Ralph (where the entire Royal Family is wiped out and they have to *search* for the next in line to the throne), is completely impossible. (Yes, I know it was a comedy and not meant to depict reality.)

    The Wolf

    #868064

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    I have a friend who said that someone we both know – his family when they fly somewhere don’t go all together but rather in two groups because that was what Yaakov did in preperation for the showdown with Eisav, meaning that the whole family shouldn’t be wiped out.

    Do they all sleep in the same house together? I’d say the chances of the family (God forbid) being wiped out by a fire is far, far greater than their chances of being wiped out in a plane crash.

    In addition, it should be noted that there is no indication that, during their other travels that Ya’akov split the family up. It was only when he was *actively excepting a confrontation* with Eisav that he did so. Does he actively expect a crash (and if so, why travel by plane)?

    The Wolf

    #868065

    I always let my wife take the kids and I come erev yom tov.

    #868066

    MorahRach
    Member

    A lot of people do this, goyim included. I didn’t know there was a minhag or that this was even derived anywhere. Everyone who jumped up with their sarcastic comments should just worry about their own family’s traveling procedures. Nothing wrong with splitting up or traveling together.

    #868067

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    Everyone who jumped up with their sarcastic comments

    Who was sarcastic? I thought my question (especially the one that pointed out that, that specific episode aside, Ya’akov’s family traveled together) was a valid one, as was my pointing out that the dangers of a fire at home are far greater than those of traveling by plane.

    The Wolf

    #868068

    MorahRach
    Member

    About road travel and yes a fire in the house c’v. I just do know a lot of people who do this for international flights. It makes them feel more secure. Zehu.

    #868069

    cheftze
    Member

    I know someone who never flew on an airplane in her life, due to fear of air travel.

    Not flying makes her feel more secure. Zehu.

    #868070

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    Who was sarcastic?

    About road travel and yes a fire in the house c’v

    If you feel they were sarcastic, please enlighten me about it. My questions were 100% sincere and not sarcastic.

    The Wolf

    #868071

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    I know someone who never flew on an airplane in her life, due to fear of air travel.

    I don’t have a problem with that. There are any number of things that I don’t do due to personal distaste or phobias.

    My issue is the OP’s friend who travels a certain way because Ya’akov did so at one special occasion while ignoring all the times that he and his family *did* travel together.

    The Wolf

    #868072

    it wasn’t bec of a phobia, it is based on some kind of minhag. Btw wolf where have you been lurking

    #868073

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    it is based on some kind of minhag

    Which is based on one incident in Ya’akov’s life while disregarding all the rest of the times he traveled.

    The Wolf

    #868074

    vulvie24
    Member

    WOW………… MAYBE THIS FAMILY LIVES IN TWO DIFFERANT HOUSES GOTTA BE KIDDING ME!

    #868075

    cheftze
    Member

    There’s no such “minhag” in Judaism.

    #868076

    hence question 2 in the op: 2 – What is the basis for applying Torah-narrative concepts such as this one as a carte blanche principle for all situations, ie here even where there is no reason to believe that there is a reasonable chance at a massacre.

    #868077

    There’s no such “minhag” in Judaism.

    How do you know?

    #868078

    WOW………… MAYBE THIS FAMILY LIVES IN TWO DIFFERANT HOUSES GOTTA BE KIDDING ME!

    Nope. Vadai no.

    #868079

    chaimss
    Participant

    “There’s no such “minhag” in Judaism.

    How do you know?”

    I believe the burden of proof is on those who want to say that there [em]is[/em] such a minhag, not that there isn’t. Apparently no one else here has heard of such a thing.

    #868080

    Well, maybe it’s a very big family and they can fill up two whole planes, so they take a plane for the men (flying first, in front!) and a plane for the women right behind it. That would make sense, to some at least.

    #868081

    mosheemes2
    Member

    For an individual, traveling on the highway may be more dangerous than flying, but since the goal here seems to be avoiding an event in which an entire family is killed, I’d bet the odds of such an event happening are more likely on a plane than in a car.

    #868083

    Patri
    Member

    me2: YEARS have gone by without a single commercial air fatality in the US, let alone an entire plane crash c’v. The same, unfortunately, cannot be said regarding road travel. Its obvious the danger of all passengers in a car c’v perishing in a mishap is far greater than it happening in the air.

    #868084

    I believe the burden of proof is on those who want to say that there [em]is[/em] such a minhag, not that there isn’t. Apparently no one else here has heard of such a thing.

    My starting assumption was that there is no such minhag. However, knowing this person, and even if i didn’t simply mitzad being dan lekaf zechus, i don’t [either] think that his family simply made this up on their own. Therefore, the fact that they do this is to some extent a raya that such a minhag does exist, or at the very least it’s a raglayim ledavar. Thus, to simply and definitively claim without any factual basis that no such minhag exists seems to me very presumptuous.

    #868085

    mosheemes2
    Member

    True, but so what? The risk of air travel isn’t zero, and the risk of any form of travel approaches zero. I’d say it’s certainly not obvious that if people flew in the US with anything approaching the regularity that they drive the odds of a mass casualty event would be higher.

    #868086

    writersoul
    Member

    We travel in two different cars when we go away— but that’s only because we put down the seats in the van to hold the luggage.

    #868087

    Patri
    Member

    me2: Even if you flew roundtrip commercial air every day, 5 days a week, your statistical risk is clearly lower than driving roundtrip, 5 days a week.

    #868088

    mosheemes2
    Member

    You’re comparing two events (Mass fatality air accidents and high fatality car accidents) that are both far too rare to draw any possible conclusion that would be statistically significant. That one of those events happens rarely while one hasn’t happened since 2009 doesn’t mean anything, especially considering that the underlying conditions necessary for a car accident (a car being driven on a road) is significantly more common than the conditions necessary for a plane crash.

    #868089

    Patri
    Member

    That isn’t correct. Even if the reason air travel is safer than road travel is due to the lack of conditions necessary for a plane crash, that does not diminish the fact that air travel is statistically safer. It in fact streghnthens the point.

    #868090

    Flatbush Guy
    Member

    Its called being paranoid. I know a woman who still refuses to fly because she is afraid. She wont even visit her married children and grandchildren who live out of the country!!!

    #868091

    BTGuy
    Participant

    It’s also good for shalom bayis. lol

    #868092

    chaplaintzvi
    Member

    just an interesting albeit scary story. when I lived in the south there was a very wealthy family who had a “minhag” that the sons would not travel together. The sons took separate jets one private one commercial out west to a business meeting. After the meeting they decided to of course take the family jet back home. You could only imagine what happened next. The plane went down killing both sons. Maybe there is something to this “minhag”. I know this story first hand my father A”H was the rov

    #868093

    BTGuy
    Participant

    In theory, would anyone care to say what the odds are that if everyone goes on one plane, it is safer than splitting up, because splitting up into two planes now means, chas veshalom, a greater chance a family will chas veshalom be at risk?

    Would it not be like a family now has the worry of the safety of two planes and two pilots and two sets of air traffic control, remotely similar to two targets are worse than one?

    #868094

    blueprints
    Participant

    “SOMEONE WHO WAS SO SCARED OF AIR TRAVEL THEY NEVER WENT ON A PLANE”

    There’s a story about an old lady who was very scared to fly for fear of terrorist bombs

    One day she had to fly to get somewhere quick so she phoned the travel agents and asked them what the chances are of there being a bomb on a plane

    They replied 1 in 75000

    So she asked what are the chances of 2 bombs and they sed 1 in 99999999999

    From that day on her fear of flying was cured

    Whenever she flew she always brought a bomb on with her

    #868095

    we travel separately sometimes. my parents in 1 car with some of the kids and myself driving the other car with the rest of the kids. this way, those who need to leave earlier can do so and b/c we are not squished in 1 car/van, there are less fights.

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