December 4, 2017 10:34 pm at 10:34 pm #1418419
How many Jewish novels can you name that feature this scenario?
(The correct answer is “too many.”)December 4, 2017 11:26 pm at 11:26 pm #1418501slominerParticipant
Real life is stranger than fiction.December 5, 2017 8:41 am at 8:41 am #1418626
I Agree… innovation seems to be lacking in that form of entertainmentDecember 5, 2017 8:41 am at 8:41 am #1418641akupermaParticipant
Biological weapons, if effective, need to “suicide” weapons (the only exception was the not totally intentional use of smallpox to enable the Europeans to defeat the American Indians). A biological weapon that would work against Jews would also work against Germans, and the Germans were out to “win” not to “take everyone with us.” A novel with such a plot would sound ridiculous.December 5, 2017 9:09 am at 9:09 am #1418659
It exists… There was one that got around that problem by having it affect only those that drunk alcohol, which excluded “good muslims” who didn’t drinkDecember 5, 2017 2:22 pm at 2:22 pm #1419154
Don’t forget the part where the Nazi’s son finds out he is really adopted, and actually a Jew whom the Nazi kidnapped from his parents before he murdered them. Now he can marry the Jewish girl who is becoming frum and wanted to break up with him because he was not Jewish. And the pair of Yeshiva Bochurim who figure everything out, foil the plot and save the world from destruction, all bein hasedarim.December 5, 2017 2:26 pm at 2:26 pm #1419172
The sad thing is that this all exists… there is no innovation at all. It’s all just retelling the same plot with different characters and placesDecember 5, 2017 3:24 pm at 3:24 pm #1419194
The romantic part of the story disqualifies it from being in a frum home.
Wasn’t their an original book from the ’80s that started this story line?December 5, 2017 3:32 pm at 3:32 pm #1419279
“The Shadows”, which is currently being serialized in the FJJ, has a “guy meets girl and they get married in the end” part to the story…December 6, 2017 8:30 pm at 8:30 pm #1421579
Akuperma, only one person is needed to convey a bioweapon into
a foreign country, and they can arrange for themselves not to be
contaminated with it, and leave the area before contagion becomes
a possibility. Even if they couldn’t, they’re one person and might be
considered expendable. I’m not sure what you mean.December 6, 2017 9:11 pm at 9:11 pm #1421589
Joseph, lots of frum books have married people or people getting married in them. That does not make them romance novels. I think it’s fair to say that marriage is acceptable for a frum home.
let’s keep this discussion general and not about any 1 particular book.December 6, 2017 9:29 pm at 9:29 pm #1421605
Getting married without the involvement of a shadchan is potentially problematic, depending on the story line.December 6, 2017 9:53 pm at 9:53 pm #1421619
Oh yes of course.
We all know that Avrohom, Moshe, Yaakov, and David Hamelech all consulted their Shadchan…December 6, 2017 10:05 pm at 10:05 pm #1421622
Yaakov Avinu also married two sisters, something you surely encourage also.December 6, 2017 10:31 pm at 10:31 pm #1421624
A lot of people got happily married through meeting their spouse by themselves. Just because that’s currently a cultural taboo, doesn’t mean it’s “unacceptable in a frum home”.December 6, 2017 11:54 pm at 11:54 pm #1421650
A lot of people got happily married through meeting their spouse in a bar or at a coed dance as well, I suppose.December 7, 2017 1:05 am at 1:05 am #1421683Avi KParticipant
There was one where they were Arab terrorists. The CIA agent who discovered it was really Jewish but had been raised as a gentile by his father and his father’s non-Jewish second wife. The first wife was a victim of vicious lashon hara in the frum community, which was the spiritual cause of the plot’s near-success (this was ascertained by a group of mekubbalim who also revealed the agent’s true identity).December 7, 2017 7:31 am at 7:31 am #1421755
When a story line involves the challenges facing a BT and her growth, chances are pretty high the marriage/dating prior to her becoming frum did not involve a shadchan. But that does not mean that the way it is presented is problematic, the “boyfriend” doesn’t even have to appear in the novel. For example, she can simply be dating someone and be struggling with whether she should break up or not, or perhaps, after she becomes frum and is in “proper” shidduchim, has trouble getting over a past relationship. This type of genre is usually geared towards women, so I am not surprised Joseph by your lack of familiarity with these plots. There are many kosher books out there in which some part of the plot involves someone finding their Bshert.December 7, 2017 7:32 am at 7:32 am #1421757adocsParticipant
So all our grandparents or greatgrandparents who met their spouses in the camps after the war were “problematic “ ? (Many just met. Or knew each other from before the war/camps. No shadchan)
Re: Yaakov avinu
In this context, you seem to be implying that yaakov did something wrong.
Re: bar or coed dance
That’s ridiculous logic. Just because some may have met in an inappropriate place such as an inappropriate bar or dance, does not mean that all such marriages were the result of an inappropriate meeting.December 7, 2017 11:47 am at 11:47 am #1421954RedlegParticipant
Adocs, Al pi Halacha, Yaakov Avinu did, in fact, do something wrong. There is a well known kashea is to the effect that, if the Avos were mekayem Kol haTorah Kuleh, how was Yaakov Avinu allowed to marry two sisters which is specifically forbidden. One answer I remember was the Avos were only mekayem kol hamitzvos in E”Y. Yaakov Avinu married two sisters in chutz la’aretz.
Also, in my and my parent’s generations, formal shadchanus as practiced today, was quite rare and confined, almost entirely, to the Chasiddishe Veldt. Most couples, including including those from rabbonishe (Litvish) families, met by introduction by friends and family or they met socially.December 10, 2017 8:08 pm at 8:08 pm #1423909Yechi HamelechParticipant
There is a novel called “aleph shin” its about a nuclear attack on Israel and at the last second, moshiach comes!
best novel ever!!!!December 11, 2017 2:54 am at 2:54 am #1424041
I don’t remember Israel coming under nuclear attack in Aleph Shin.
Avi K, do you have the title of that book?December 11, 2017 2:33 pm at 2:33 pm #1424468CSParticipant
@redleg cvs! Yaakov a bonus, bichir haavos, did not do something wrong!! There are answers how it goes with the lav against marrying two sisters but he did something right, not wrong.
Another answer is that mitzvos were optional Hiddurim which the avos of course kept unless they conflicted with sheva mitzvos bnei noach which was incumbent on them at the time. Of course this changed with matan Torah.
He married them because he otherwise would have broken 1 of the 7. I remember it being that he had promised Rachel he would Mary her although can’t remember how that was one i of the seven right now…. Unless I’m mixing things up.
Actually I think it was that it is mutar for a Ben noach to marry two sisters from different mothers, and since he had promised to marry Rachel, he couldn’t break his word for the sake of a chumra
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.