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The sodomites, in their quest to destroy the concept of marriage and legalize sodomite “marriage”, are a vote short of G-d forbid legalizing recognition of their perversion as a so-called “marriage” in the State of New York. Rabbosai, we are on the brink of these disgusting pervs besmirching this State. The only one we can now turn to is Hakodesh Baruch Hu. Open the floodgates with your prayers, and beseach the Bashefer to spare us from this machla.
Agudah is fighting this on the political level.
Agudah is fighting this?
That was a funny joke.
hahahahaha.
Ok. I finished laughing now.
How are they fighting it? By giving Shelly Silver an honor at their dinner two weeks ago? How?
What kind of message does this send to our kids? They honor the biggest supporter of gay marriage in NYS, someone who brought the vote to the floor (is 100% responsible), and who goes and praises the passing of the bill in the assembly. Then, the next day after the dinner, they send out this phony “call to action”.
What a bunch of fakers, and hippocrates.
They lobby like wild cockroaches for TAP funding, but for what the Torah calls “toeiva”, they ignore do nothing.
Don’t worry, their supporters will claim they are lobbying like crazy (total sheker). They did not lobby as hard as they did to get a few shekels for some mosdos.
basically, the agudah and their ilk have sold the Torah hakdosha for a a few bucks.
shame on them.
why does this affect us?
If you are saying because of the irreligious toeivaniks in the state of NY it won’t get them to change if it stays assur it’ll just make them move to San Fransisco
The Shitta of the Gedolim in Eretz Yisroel is that money that is supporting learning takes precidence over all other political matters. How can you blame the Agudah for following the P’sak Halacha of Gedolim like Rav Elyashiv?
Perhaps their learning IS more critical than defense of marriage?
Wouldnt this horrible machla just help bring moshiach closer by making things worse?
It worked in Egypt!
However @Ferd is right. Organizations that lobby for every manner of taxpayer money to support the religious community can not at the same time lobby against these selfsame politicians who have objectionable policies.
The Agudah is trying to have it’s cake and eat it to. By outwardly opposing the issue they keep their supporters but by not going all out, they dont upset the politicians.
It’s an amazing strategy and it will work because no one would dare question Agudah leadership, at least not on an institutional level
The Shitta of the Gedolim in Eretz Yisroel is that money that is supporting learning takes precidence over all other political matters. How can you blame the Agudah for following the P’sak Halacha of Gedolim like Rav Elyashiv?
Are we in Eretz Yisroel?
Did they ask Rav Alyashiv about this?
Stop before you make a total fool out of yourself.
In fact, after the Lakewood Roshei yeshiva said to vote Corzine, some people went to rav Shteinman and told him he’s pro-gay, and he said chas veshalom should they vote for such a person.
money that is supporting learning takes precidence over all other political matters.
Do you even realize how this sounds?
The Wolf
The Wolf
Yes.
So when voting for the next President of the United States, I should disregard every position he has except the “…money that is supporting learning…” because it “…takes precidence over all other political matters.” Guess that made life a little easier…
New York recognizes marriages performed in other states
All one has to do is take metro North or drive to Greenwich, CT where its legal (Its about 30 North of Borough Park) get married there and drive back or take metro-north back to the city and NY will recognize anything performed there.
Ferd: Maybe and maybe not; I just see what they fight about and what they don’t.
Rav Miller ZTL would have been Moche, but he is not here.
optimusprime:
If you follow that shitta, yes.
I meant 30 miles NORTH of Borough park
gavra: That “shitta” you attribute is non-existent. The Gedolim in Eretz Yisroel have been at the forefront at protesting the sodomite parade in Yerushlayim. Many of them personally attended.
mods, why was my post deleted (was it something I said?)
Gavra is a liar.
No gadol ever said this. never.
chas veshalom.
what a liar, and mevaze talmidei chachomim you are.
I am making a public macha
John:
I wish I was a liar as well. I really do.
That is just not were I see the efforts of the Frum political parties in EY going. They compromise on the other stuff, such as withdrawing from Gazza, or transporting equipment on Shabbos, but not on funding for Yeshivas. And the parties get there orders straight from the Gedolim.
shein: That is only because Toeiva is not the same issue that it is here in the USA. The Lakewood Roshei Yeshiva said to vote for Corzine.
Can someone please tell me what exactly we will lose if this law passes? Lets face facts; no one is hiding their orientation if thats the way they lean. One afternoon on the streets of NYC will tell you that. What’s the big deal if they can get a document to prove it.
I know its a toevah, but why is this our pollitical concern? Where’s the money, power and/or liability angle (bec, when politicans are involved, its usually one or all of the above.
(p.s – Bulleted list are easiest for me to digest, so if you can format your answer that way, I’d be mucho grateful)
Gavra, the lakewood roshei yeshivas were not straight with everyone.
here is proof, from the two biggest poskim of lakewood http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/article.php?p=41511
in fact everyone ion lkwd voted for christie and not corzine (as the roshei yeshiva said).
aron kotler tried to use the torah community of lakewood just as the agudah did at their dinner, but it backfired bigtim in his face.
“Rabbosai, we are on the brink of these disgusting pervs besmirching this State.”
I haven’t noticed any difference in Connecticut.
Gavra, the lakewood roshei yeshivas were not straight with everyone.
I can’t talk to this, only sigh.
@bpt; Kanoim arent really ones to think things through.
Believe me I would love nothing more than to go back to pre-civil rights era in the country in terms of values but this has no foresable benefit in the short or medium term for us to concern ourselves with this fight.
Maybe one can argue that the religious Jews of America will be judged harshly for doing nothing to stop it but everything else tells me this isnt our fight.
Has the Bostoner rebbe lost any kavod because its legal there too
scratch that comment its there
ok,I’m pretty sure this is going to get deleted but I have to voice my opinion-which is-who cares? I’m not for or against this…why do we need to care which way someone “leans”? Does it affect you? Is what someone does in private anyone elses business?? I think not. So let’s just everyone live and let live. And if we think that such a bill passing will ruin our children…it wont. If the house they grow up in is safe and stable and open and communicative,the kids will turn out fine. Please,everyone just mind your own business and take care of yourselves!
What a bunch of fakers, and hippocrates.
The Agudah is the father of medicine?
ty esther i see someone else thinks like me
Actually more people than you know think that way,
I discussed this many times in previous topics here in the CR. To refresh e/o’s memory the reason you have to make a Machoh against Toeiva marriage is because it’s much worse than just being a Toeivahnik. We previously quoted that Hashem didn’t bring the destruction of the world until the Toievaniks wrote Kesubos to each other. So how can you stand by and watch the destruction of the world? It’s probably Ossur to say about their marriage plans -live and let live. This brings destruction to the world, so you can’t be quiet.
Why on Earth should frum yidden care if the bill passes? It just makes us look bad to protest about such stupidity. The United States is a free country, let those people do the same legal ceremonies that everyone else can do.
The US is a free country, but that doesn’t give people license to do WHATEVER they want. I have absolutely zero problem with gay couples having a commitment ceremony that legally binds them and affords them mutal legal protection under our country’s Constitution. But I absolutely DO object to that union being called a “marriage.” Call it Domestic Union, Spousehood, or some such creative nomenclature. But keep marriage sacred to those who may legally be called either husband or wife. What will be next, people who want to marry their hamster?
There are legal considerations when it comes to marriage.
For example you can file a joint tax return, You can be on your spouces health insurance. You have the right to make medical decisions for your spouce. You have the right to inherit your spouces assets.
Like Health said, the Gemora specifically states that a reason Hashem didn’t destroy the goyim is because they do not give marriage contracts to mishkav zochor.
But I absolutely DO object to that union being called a “marriage.”
and possibly I could object to a person being called a citizen, but I’m not going to protest at every immigration office
What does need to be corrected
Lets say someone wants a Glatt Kosher “union” and the Hashghca tells the wedding hall if the ceremony is done they will remove the hasghcha, so the wedding hall tells the couple they cant have the affair there.
So the couple sues the wedding halls for discrimination.
The caters and halls need to be protected if they refuse to have such affairs and might cause them to lose other business
I live in a state that has allowed same-sex marriage for many years. I can tell you for sure it has not affected my marriage, nor the marriage of anyone I know.
Isn’t the term “sodomite” extremely archaic?
It’s unbelievable how so many otherwise intelligent people have their heads in the sand about this issue.
YES, it definitely does affect us. It should be patently obvious that if this bill passes it is not a good thing for Jews, even if the effects take some time before they filter down, CH”V (though it’s already pretty terrible, may Hashem redeem us all BB”A).
Imagine a father-daughter or brother-sister alliance wanted the same for themselves, that a father and daughter or brother and sister should be allowed to have spousal benefits. Nothing to do with the bedroom, of course, but nonetheless they want equal rights…what about a man and his dog? Still no problem?
The more “normal” any perversion becomes, the more it will infiltrate into our holy camps. There’s nothing to debate and no amount of sheltering and talking about it post-facto will help return it to the days before it became legal.
Look around Chazal and take your pick…how about this week’s parsha? Binei Reuven got caught up with Korach’s rebellion because, Rashi says, Oy Larasha oy Lishcheino. This means, simply, that the Bnei Reuven knew better than to start up with Moshe Rabbeinu and Hashem Himself, but their mere proximity was enough to have them err and commit a grievous sin, one that makes no logical sense to an outside observer given Moshe Rabbeinu’s greatness and direct connection to Hashem.
If you live in NY and care about (acting and) raising kids properly, you do not want this bill to pass, no matter how little the effect may be on you, personally.
Well said HaKatan. I think we should all say Tehilim that this be defeated.
Hakatan -“It’s unbelievable how so many otherwise intelligent people have their heads in the sand about this issue.”
1. Who says they are intelligent? 2. Even if they are, the Y.Hora makes them blind.
“If you live in NY and care about (acting and) raising kids properly, you do not want this bill to pass, no matter how little the effect may be on you, personally.”
Wrong, I don’t live in NY and don’t want this to pass. I’m very upset that NJ even has “unions”! The more states that pass this perversion, the more the country goes to pot. In my opinion, anybody who voted for Cuomo the H–o (which they called his father) can’t be considered a Frum Jew (if that is what they consider themselves). The people fool themselves and say Hashem doesn’t really care what the Goyim do, so why should we? Wrong, at some point there will be the breaking point and Hashem will bring destruction here. So either, the Jews are suicidal or they are Kofrim and don’t believe Chazal when they tell us that Toieva marriage brings destruction to the world!
Avodah Zorah is also prohibited according to the laws of Bnei Noach and I dont see anywhere here going to protest a Hindu or Buddist temple (Assuming it wasnt sold be Young Israel)
ZD,
good point I was thinking of something like that
zahavasdad – “Avodah Zorah is also prohibited according to the laws of Bnei Noach and I dont see anywhere here going to protest a Hindu or Buddist temple (Assuming it wasnt sold be Young Israel)”
Again, we protest things that affect us, not everytime a Goy doesn’t keep his/her’s Mitzvos.
I think a law that can cause the destruction of the US perhaps affects us!
How does it affect you that someone you dont know, never met, never will meet and only heard about does something in their private home.
Trust me they arent going to Borough Park, they will stick to their neighborhoods.
As pointed elsewhere a Buddist temple bought a shul, that DID affect you. So why not go protest Buddahism.
I dont see a yeshiva becoming a shrine to Sodom anytime soon
I dont see a yeshiva becoming a shrine to Sodom anytime soon
well the Gemara does say “Beis Va’ad Yihiyeh L’znus” and znus can be referring to sodomy
zahavasdad -“How does it affect you that someone you dont know, never met, never will meet and only heard about does something in their private home.”
I’ll repeat it one more time. The passing of this law will bring a decree of destruction on this country from Hashem, a little closer. This will affect e/o, not just me. And I’m not the one saying this, Chazal are!
zahavasdad, in addition to Health’s point, you are making a (false) assumption that you will never meet them and you are also ignoring the societal ramifications of which, as I said earlier, do apply even to those in Boro Park.
The first mistake is to think this perversion is “merely” what “someone does in their private home”.
Do you ever travel to, for example, Manhattan’s Penn Station? Do you not realize that Penn Station (not to mention beaches and other places that could be avoided) looks different today than years ago? Do you not realize that, the more “normal” this perversion becomes, CH”V, you and everyone will see men holding hands and more strutting through Penn Station? Do you not realize this will have a powerful sub-conscious impact on you and certainly on impressionable children?
That’s besides the less tangible but still frightening societal changes it would bring.
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