Filtering the Water

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  • #608371

    Torah613Torah
    Participant

    Do you still filter the drinking water in your house?

    We do, just so we can say we do, even though we hold you don’thave to.

    #933788

    Dovnyc
    Member

    Dear poster: It is a halachic question, so I don’t understand the inquiry as if it is an optional issue. We do whatever our halachic authority says.

    #933789

    Sam2
    Participant

    I once heard in the name of a big Talmid Chacham that you need a filter during the summer and not the winter. The reason is that the copepods eat algae, which is scarce during the winter, thus there is a less than a Miut Hamatzui chance of finding a Biryah Shleimah in a cup, which is not true during the summer.

    #933790

    Mammele
    Participant

    Can somebody clue me in: if we have a filter but don’t always change the cartridge soon enough and the water starts tasting bad, does this mean we are drinking more copepods than without a filter/cartridge at all, or we can assume it’s “just” sediment?

    #933791

    Yserbius123
    Participant

    No, because I am one of those rare people who don’t live in New York.

    #933792

    WIY
    Member

    Torah613Torah

    We still filter our water. I think the water tastes better filtered. Besides, the copepods never told me that they left.

    #933793

    🐵 ⌨ Gamanit
    Participant

    If you have decent eyesight and look into the cup and don’t see anything then your fine according to my LOR. We do have a home made filter inside the pipe though…

    #933794

    tro11
    Member

    My rov holds you only have to filter if there are copepods in the water but not if there aren’t any.

    #933795

    Torah613Torah
    Participant

    Yserbius: Yes, well, I go by rov people are on the East Coast, and I bet that if you had as many talmidei chachamim as we have in Brooklyn, they would have found something in your water by now.

    WIY: I actually liked it fine copepod flavored. If there ever were copepods. The problem with filters is you can taste the filter (if you use cotton like we do).

    #933796

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    If there ever were copepods.

    If?

    #933797

    Yserbius123
    Participant

    Torah613Torah: All I’m hearing from you is “Look at me! I’m from Brooklyn and we have more Torah than you!” You make me certain that had I known you as a kid, I would have been oiver on several levels of sinas chinam.

    Perhaps if your Rov would also have checked into the situation to figure out if there are actually any copepods in the water your answer would be different. Several Rabbonim in our town dealt very closely with the inyan, were me’ayin into the sugyos and spoke with Rav Belsky, Rav Dovid Cohen along with the municipal water company. Turns out, NYC is pretty much alone in the copepod problem due to them having a different filtration system than most other major US cities, which may or may not be on the East Coast.

    #933798

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    NYC is pretty much alone in the copepod problem due to them having a different filtration system than most other major US cities

    Or not having a filtration system…

    #933799

    ari-free
    Participant

    That’s right. Not everything revolves around NYC.

    Copepods and most other ‘bugs’ are pagum so you don’t have to worry about their taste treifing up your pots when you end up cooking them. You do have to worry about birya, that is, having them whole. A whole birya never becomes botul so you can’t eat anything with those things in it.

    When they go through a filter, they break apart and the water that comes through no longer has copepods that are birya.

    #933800

    ThePurpleOne
    Member

    k so my familys rav says that we dont have to filter our water, but we still do.. whats the reason behind not havng to?

    #933801

    ari-free
    Participant

    You can see them when they are alive and jumping around in the reservoir but when they are dead from the chlorine, they are very hard to see.

    #933802

    Oh Shreck!
    Participant

    I think a serious question would be using a filter on Shabbos – in areas where it’s required.

    #933803

    Mammele
    Participant

    Actually, IIRC the DEP admitted to ADDING copepods to the water supply for some benefit…

    And NYC will eventually get filtered water if the feds have their way, at least from some reservoirs .

    #933804

    lesschumras
    Participant

    Long Island gets its water from aquifers so not an issue

    #933805

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Oh Shreck!,

    It is indeed a serious shailah. There may be heterim for certain types of filters, but it’s best to prepare enough drinking water before Shabbos.

    Netilas yadayim water isn’t a problem.

    #933806

    Oh Shreck!
    Participant

    The little I know about this problem is that if you need it filtered than it should be a d’oriysah! What kind of filter (that’s acceptable) is permitted?

    #933807

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Yes, it should be d’Oraisa.

    There’s a Minchas Yitzchak, IIRC, who is mattir certain filters which operate whenever the water is turned on, such as a whole house filter.

    I was told not to rely on this heter except b’shaas had’chak.

    #933808

    Oh Shreck!
    Participant

    I know, I heard about that, I don’t understand it. I spoke to some about that heter, they cannot understand it, too.

    #933809

    Sam2
    Participant

    DY: I heard from Rav Schachter that he has six Snifim L’hakel by this issue if the filter is not where the water immediately comes out from. So on the faucet would be Assur but in the pipe would be okay.

    #933810

    anon1m0us
    Participant

    As long as you do not see bugs with your eyes you do not need a filter.

    #933811

    Oh Shreck!
    Participant

    Sam2, Mind sharing some of those. I also heard likewise (Minchas Yitzchak), with a reason I myself cannot understand.

    #933812

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Sam, thanks. I find that often, when a posek lists a number of reasons to be meikil, it’s because none of them are iron-clad.

    I would definitely think that it’s better to prepare all drinking water before Shabbos.

    #933813

    WorldWideJew
    Member

    I have a question that perhaps someone knowledgeable can address:

    Considering that filters are prohibited on Shabbos to obtain drinking water through (apparently for non-drinking purposes it is okay to utilize water filtered on Shabbos), then how can anyone in the United States outside of New York City or the other four cities (Boston and three other smaller towns) that have a federal waiver (due to the natural cleanliness of their municipal water supply) to not filter their water, drink any water coming out of the faucet? Almost every municipality in the U.S. (save NYC and the other 4) filter all their water by the municipality!

    #933814

    🐵 ⌨ Gamanit
    Participant

    You are allowed to filter water for the sake of drinking right before drinking- from the sink into the cup and drinking it right away.

    #933815

    WIY
    Member

    Torah613Torah

    I agree the cotton ones are nasty. We have the house main filtered. Not cheap but it works…

    #933816

    Yserbius123
    Participant

    WorldWideJew: That’s the same shayloh of how can you turn on a faucet to begin with, as the water pumps are running on Shabbos.

    #933817

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Gamanit, not simple at all. You’re using a keili, so unless you’re drinking directly from the filtering device, it’s likely assur.

    #933818

    Mammele
    Participant

    What’s the difference between a full-fledged filter and filtering with a cloth on Shabbos/Pesach? I’ve always known that since the water is fit for consumption without it it’s allowed on Shabbos.

    #933819

    Torah613Torah
    Participant

    Yserbius: I was joking! You don’t need to be oiver sinas chinam for me. Sorry for offending you or other out of towners, I just figured that the topic was obviously aimed at New Yorkers. I am sure your Rabbonim are great people and carefully checked out the situation.

    #933820

    Sam2
    Participant

    DY: Yes, but that’s a concept in Halachah. That’s what a Snif Lehakel is. They’re not iron-clad. They’re not even worth holding by on their own. The way Rav Schachter explains the concept is let’s say there’s a 30% chance that any of these six reasons is right. That means that there is a .7^6 chance that it is actually Assur. Hence, by combining the reasons Lehakel, we can end up assuming that there is a strong likelihood that it’s Muttar.

    #933821

    Torah613Torah
    Participant

    Sam2: Is that the way being meikil is usually done? Statistically? I find that fascinating.

    #933822

    Oh Shreck!
    Participant

    Sam2:

    Second request. Mind sharing with us any of those six. Thanks

    #933823

    somewhereone
    Member

    WorldWideJew: Any city that filters there water has the same effect regarding Shabbos use as if a person put an individual filter on their kitchen sink.

    That being said, I am surprised to hear that most American cities filter their water. Are you sure? That might have serious halachic implications.

    #933824

    rebdoniel
    Member

    R’ Schachter’s colleague at the OU, R’ Belsky, IIRC,holds that you don’t need a filter.

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