October 27, 2010 11:44 am at 11:44 am #592787hashemsprincessMember
If you see a flaw in your friend, it is your business to point it out to her???October 27, 2010 12:44 pm at 12:44 pm #703940so rightMember
No. (Unless it is against halacha. In that case tochocho and Kol Yisroel Areivim Zeh L’azeh come to mind.)October 27, 2010 12:47 pm at 12:47 pm #703941
depends how close you guys are?? and if u decide to point it out be aware of how critical your being…you dont want to come across with a holier-than-thou attitude. my friends piss me off all the time, i just learned to accept that, that is just the way they are take it or leave it….you cant change others, you can only change urself…but good luck!!!October 27, 2010 12:54 pm at 12:54 pm #703942☕️coffee addictParticipant
a great way to answer that question is put yourself in her shoes, if you were her, (hep personality) would you want it to be pointed out to youOctober 27, 2010 1:09 pm at 1:09 pm #703943SJSinNYCMember
A better way to answer that is what would Moshe Rose do?October 27, 2010 1:18 pm at 1:18 pm #703944HelpfulMember
Sjs – Our MR or your MR?October 27, 2010 1:27 pm at 1:27 pm #703945SJSinNYCMember
Our MR. Mine might still watch Sportscenter.October 27, 2010 1:31 pm at 1:31 pm #703946HelpfulMember
Sjs – thats a flaw you should have your MR correct.October 27, 2010 1:41 pm at 1:41 pm #703947abcd2Participant
A) When criticizing somebody even constructively or for benefiting them make sure it is worth it. By the fact you have to ask this question here in the coffee room shows that you might have doubts about what you are doing or thinking of doing. Speak to an objective outsider without naming names and who will not realize who your friend is and describe the problem.
B)You have not stated if it is a flaw such as weight or manner of dress or a character flaw. Regardless of issue approach it gently as perhaps your friend is already cognizant of the issue and is not able to help themselves but wants to change,or just has not reached out yet or does not want to reach out to friends for help. Whatever you do speak in a manner non-embarrassing to your friend and in a manner that you do not come across as holier then thou and a know it all (A while back I had a friend who one of our chevra felt had to be spoken to about his short temper, unbeknown to us this friend of ours was well aware of his tendency to blow up and had actually begun speaking to a therapist about how to help him control himself.He obviously never discussed this with us prior to one of us speaking to him, as he felt that it was not for public knowledge.)
C) If you do bring the issue up with her even if she expresses her desire for your input don’t constantly bring up the issue with her afterward.If she does not want your help but does not totally blow you off perhaps she herself will bring it up to you on a later date after thinking about it for awhile or if after awhile you still see your friend not changing and it will not make the friend totally embarrassed you might want to bring it up again of course you will have to be the judge if it is worth it or not
d) Make sure you have a way to help or guide her in a soft manner if it is an immediate issue that can be dealt with. A terrible thing would be to point out a flaw and then not know how to handle it, it will only further complicate the fact that she is aware that she has this flaw and my friend is pointing it out but I still have no ideas how to change. Even if you yourself cannot help, think of a person she could speak to or a book she could read.
e)All suggestions should be made in a non-forceful gentle manner as while you might think they are great and correct (WHICH THEY ACTUALLY MIGHT BE!)she might not. If she feels your idea is ludicrous then she might dismiss the meaningfulness of you wanting to help her as well
f)HATZLACHA! It is a tremendous Zechus to help a fellow JewOctober 27, 2010 1:44 pm at 1:44 pm #703948aries2756Participant
Usually WE see OUR flaws in others and that is why we are irritated by it the most. So think about it before we call others on it. In addition no one is without flaws, if you start the challenge she might just point out some of yours. Are you up for it? I am not saying this to be mean or derogatory I am saying this because that is usually what happens. No one takes criticism lightly. Love your friends flaws and all.October 27, 2010 2:29 pm at 2:29 pm #703949bptParticipant
If you can see a flaw, are you REALLY a friend?October 27, 2010 3:17 pm at 3:17 pm #703950hashemsprincessMember
(To every one that posted)…
i am actually not th eone who wants to point out the flaw… someone pointed out something abt me and i am very upset about (abd really what she said isnt true..) i wan2 know if i have a reason to b upset….October 27, 2010 3:31 pm at 3:31 pm #703951WIYMember
That’s ridiculous. People aren’t perfect we just ignore our friends flaws.October 27, 2010 4:00 pm at 4:00 pm #703952oomisParticipant
First, be sure you are correct and that it is a genuine flaw (not merely something that irritates YOU). You risk the obvious, being told, WELL YOU AREN’T SO PERFECT, EITHER, YA KNOW! Or worse, the friendship might be in jeopardy. It really depends on the seriousness of the issue, whether or not it is fixable (you don’t like her taste in clothing??? Big deal! You don’t like her taste in shidduchim – that’s another story), or whether the criticism is worth the potential backlash.October 27, 2010 4:59 pm at 4:59 pm #703953☕️coffee addictParticipant
of course you still are, the question is why are you telling them about it if it’s b/c of yourself then you’re not but if u truly want to make them grow, why not?October 27, 2010 5:24 pm at 5:24 pm #703954FunnyBunnyMember
I forgot the exact quote, but usually a flaw that you see in a friend, is actually a flaw in yourself.October 27, 2010 5:55 pm at 5:55 pm #703955bptParticipant
OK, people, back off.. I was just being funny. But now that I see Hashemsprincess has a real issue, I’ll answer seriously.
Princess – It may not be true, but if that’s the perception,you should try to address that. Not defend yourself, just clarify the stiuation.
My wife had a “falling out” (her words) with a friend, and she says she feels that way because phone calls went unreturned.
So, rather than let things fester, I did the sensible thing; I asked the friends husband if he wants to eat out. Once at the table, the 2 Mrs. were soon back on good terms. Not that there was a problem.. only a PERCIEVED problem.
If its a friend, call and ask to clarify.October 27, 2010 6:28 pm at 6:28 pm #703956squeakParticipant
It is very hard to accept criticism from anyone. But those who can are generally better people and better liked by people. So it’s up to you to decide if you are that person or if your pride is worth more than your friendship.October 27, 2010 6:50 pm at 6:50 pm #703957blinkyParticipant
hashemsprincess- was the comment said respectfully to you or was it said nasty?
My opinion- if it was said respectfully obviously your friend values your friendship and wants to just point something out that you did wrong so you can fix it. If it was me i would be grateful that my flaw was pointed out though it might be uncomfortable but in the long run its worth it. Trust me, its not easy for a friend to point out your flaw to you in your face. Its better then being silent about it and letting it fester.October 27, 2010 7:45 pm at 7:45 pm #703958aries2756Participant
Princess, I would think about it a little bit. Are you so hurt that you can’t adimit what she said isn’t true? Or did she really get the wrong impression or information? If she is off the mark then wait a few days and then meet with her and calmly ask her why she said what she did. Then you can tell her that you were very surprised and dissappointed that she felt that way because you honestly don’t see yourself that way or you honestly don’t think or act that way whatever the case may be. Set the record straight and clear up the misunderstanding before it escalates into something more than that.October 27, 2010 7:54 pm at 7:54 pm #703959cokeMember
i think that as long as you point out your friends flaw in a nice way and not by making her feel like “2 cents” then you should be fine! good luckOctober 27, 2010 9:27 pm at 9:27 pm #703960cokeMember
I feel really bad for you! I think you should maybe just drop her….after all I can only imagine that you have lots more friends and if you can’t live with the flaw then drop her! Or better yet, like BPT says if you still see her flaw I guess you are not such good friends! Help for all I know I am the friend! LOLOLOLOOctober 27, 2010 10:57 pm at 10:57 pm #703961oomisParticipant
“So, rather than let things fester, I did the sensible thing; I asked the friends husband if he wants to eat out. Once at the table, the 2 Mrs. were soon back on good terms. Not that there was a problem.. only a PERCIEVED problem.”
I like your style. That was a great idea (o’ course it coulda blown up in your face, if the two women really were broigez with each other!)
Ok, just FTR, if one observes one’s friend doing the wrong the thing, there is an inyan of Hocheiach tochiach es amitecha.
Also, for the one whose feelings are hurt, I would write your friend an extensive e-mail, telling her why you are hurt, and why you feel she is mistaken (this works for giving mussar to the person in whom you perceive a flaw, as well). It is hard to ignore what someone is saying when it is written in black and white and they can re-read and digest what is being stated. The words are also being written, no yelling involved, so the other party might “hear” what you are saying better than if you got into a verbal argument. There is no mistake in you saying one thing and the other person hearing something else. It is there b’ferush.
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