- This topic has 26 replies, 11 voices, and was last updated 12 years, 7 months ago by .
-
Posts
-
so i was wondering my family has put food in and out of the oven on shabbos for my whole life, i must add ofcourse not liquid i no thats not halachicly correct but we put dry foods in like kugels or snitchels ect. Without trying to question them and sound disrespectful ive asked my parents before abt. it since i know almost no one else who does it on shabbos day and my father did tell me a rav had told him it was ok ect. i didnt really remember the exact answer. although my brother told me hes not so sure if it is halachicly correct. i was wondering if anyone has heard of doing this before and has a source for it? 🙂
If I have a kugel I want to warm for shabbos lunch I stick it on top of the crockpot, which we have on a timer.
Leaving an oven on all of shabbos is not good for the oven and makes the house hot.
what do your parents use for the choulent?
I’m not sure what to tell you.
I’m almost certain you are not allowed to do that.
You are, however, allowed to put food which is already cooked and is dry on a ??? ?? ??? ???, a pot on top of a pot.
So, people will put something on top of a crockpot or on top of an overturned pot on the stove.
I guess you could tell your parents that you heard it may be an issue, and suggest they ask the rabbi again. It is easier if you already have other solutions, so present that also.
As far as you eating it, it is probably not a problem, since it was already cooked, but I can’t say for certain.
Does it have a keep warm setting?
I was told it’s ok as long as the food is dry, and the oven is on extremely low. If I put food in there, it won’t really get hot – only warm.
Do they put it back or do they just leave it in over night and take it out for the meal? I’ve seen plenty of people, including rabbis, do that.
I was told it’s ok as long as the food is dry, and the oven is on extremely low. If I put food in there, it won’t really get hot – only warm.
That’s interesting. I’ve never heard of that.
I can imagine it would be ok if the oven was not yad soledes bo, but that is really low. I have never heard of an oven having a setting that low. And it would take forever to get your food warm at all.
Yes, it does take a long time. For Friday night, I’ll put the soup on a flame and boil it until right before Shabbos, then put it in the oven so it stays hot.
For Shabbos lunch, it’s usually only potato kugel. I’ll put it in first thing in the morning, before going to shul. When I have my meal, 4 hours later, it will be warm.
There are different opinions what yad soledes bo is, but I don’t think anyone holds it is nearly as high as 180. You can get severely burned by water which is much cooler than that.
This is copied from a website I googled:
“Most adults will suffer third-degree burns if exposed to 150 degree water for two seconds. Burns will also occur with a six-second exposure to 140 degree water or with a thirty second exposure to 130 degree water. Even if the temperature is 120 degrees, a five minute exposure could result in third-degree burns.”
I have heard some authorities hold yad soledes bo is even a bit below 110.
happym19- No one is chas vecholilo denigrating your parents but they may have confused putting kugel (and other dry foods like chicken) on TOP of the oven- actually right next to the flame- and putting it IN the oven. The latter would not be allowed on shabbos in contrast to just warming up the food on the stove which is permissible. The yad soledes bo issue would not apply with dry food as it would be “bishul achar bishul”.
rabbiofberlin:
Are you accounting for the issue of ???? ?????, which does not allow you to put any food on any flame at all, except with a ????, like ??? ?? ??? ????
happym19: My question was about putting back something that was taken out. That is an issue. If it’s low enough to just keep it warm (not yad soledes bo, as others have already said) there is no problem. I think the reason more people don’t do it is that most ovens have a safety feature that turns the oven off after it’s been on longer than twelve hours.
Here is an excerpt from the Star-K discussion:
All food must be fully cooked and placed in the oven before Shabbos. No food (cooked or non-cooked) may be placed in the oven on Shabbos to re-warm or cook. This is true regarding ovens, as well as warming drawers.
It is the opinion of Rabbi Heinemann that on Shabbos, for a thermostatically controlled oven that is running (as opposed to one shut off by timed bake), the door may be opened once at any time and all the food removed at that time. The oven may not be used any further for that Shabbos.
(btw, Itche, my oven also has a 12 hour cutoff. I turned it off so that I can leave the oven on over a Yom Tov.)
farrockgradma= thank you for the quotation, this is exactly what I thought and what I wrote.
popa-I said thay you should put it “right next to the flame” – which by the way, should be covered by a “blech”.There is no “nireh ke-mevashel’ at all.
i dont know anything about the Halachic opinions that you are asking but I think you should be careful to talk to your parents nicely and respectfully when you bring this up. Just dont come out to them like you did your research on something they are doing for years. they will be upset and most likely not listen at all.
I don’t think most of the Olam know or understand this issuer on the warming drawer.
I would also ask if the oven has a shabbos mode. If it does the answer might be different because in that case, it probably does NOT change the heat according to whether or not the door is opened.
On the other hand there might be a different chumra in regard to ovens and drawers which actually surround the food with heat rather than a belch which is open and only gives indirect heat from the bottom because the belch itself is hot.
There is a lot more halacha that is being missed here. See siman 253
I was told that even to put something on top of the stove once Shabbos has already started one needs to put something (like an empty pot that has been overturned) on top of the blech and put the food on top of that to avoid it appearing as if you are cooking. I believe the idea is that an unlearned person could look at you while it’s happening and not realize that you are putting it “right next to the fire” as opposed to right over the fire and think that you are cooking whatever you have put there.
happym19:
You really should speak to your rav. It does not seem to be correct what you are doing. The quote above only allowed food to remain there from before shabbos.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.