June 12, 2020 1:49 pm at 1:49 pm #18708231Participant
Like today, there were all kinds of unrest in America. Were people worried about the end of America then and were jews feeling uneasy like many do now? How did the madness slow down?June 12, 2020 2:12 pm at 2:12 pm #1871293Abba_SParticipant
I was a kid but I think we prayed for the government and the president and Vice President like some do for the ZHL the Israeli Army.June 12, 2020 5:20 pm at 5:20 pm #1871346DovidBTParticipant
In the 60’s, the need for police and the justice system was taken for granted by almost everyone. There were no responsible government leaders supporting violent riots. Violent criminals stopped by the police were not treated as heroes.June 12, 2020 5:25 pm at 5:25 pm #1871347Reb EliezerParticipant
I am going to mention an interesting pshat I heard in the name of the Debretziner Rav, Rav Shlomo Tzvi Strasser ztz’l. At Kablas Katorah, the nations came to Bilom complaining until he calmed them down by telling them that Hashem is giving the Jews the Torah. Why did they come? When people are in servitude and freed, they become like animals. The nations were afraid that when 600,000 Jews are freed, will turn the world over, so Bilom told them, don’t be afraid the Torah is going to calm them down. In the 60s, the civil rights given to the blacks created a revolution. Similarly when Gorbachev gave rights to the Soviets in the beginning of the 90’s giving them a finger, they wanted the whole hand. Over here it is different. They just asking for the same rights the others have and not more or less.June 12, 2020 5:25 pm at 5:25 pm #1871349BenephraimParticipant
הנותן תשועה למלכים……is printed in Russian based siddurim and then rolled over to America. They referenced the Tsar . So it was before communism. I never saw a siddur where the Bolsheviks or Mensheviks were blessed. The Hungarian siddurim did not have the prayer. Phillipp Birnbaum who was from Wilmington Delaware printed it in his Siddur. That is where Joe Biden hails from. more laterJune 12, 2020 5:26 pm at 5:26 pm #1871351
1 – “How did the madness slow down?”
They brought in the National Guard. These Guys had APC & Tanks. It stopped Real Quick.June 12, 2020 5:26 pm at 5:26 pm #1871352SchnitzelBigotParticipant
I wasnt alive then but I think that when Nixon won the election in the fall everyone realized that it was all hype and that America at large including the youth was not with the protestors. We’re all waiting to see if the same thing will happen this fall.June 12, 2020 5:27 pm at 5:27 pm #1871354
What made those times different was the Vietnam War. The civil rights movement led by Martin Luther King were largely non violent but the War helped spawn violent, radical offshoots ( SDS, the Weathermen, Black Panthers ). There was a cottage industry in NY where rabbis established ” yeshivas ” for the purpose of selling divinity draft deferments. For a price they would inform your draft board that you were a rabbinical student and you’d receive a 4D ( later a 1y) deferment. Once you were out of school ( and ineligible for a student deferment, the yeshiva tuition went up. The exception were teachers, who were exempt from the draft, causing a spike in men becoming teachers in the 1960s. The implementation of the draft lottery pretty much ended the paying for a 4D.June 12, 2020 5:29 pm at 5:29 pm #1871369
The madness of the 60s slowed down as:
Civil Rights laws started to be enforced
Public School integration (busing) went into effect
Housing discrimination laws were written and enforced
Redlining by banks was stopped
Equal opportunity protection in hiring and college admissions
ERA became part of some state Constitutions (including NY and CT)
Voting age and national drinking age lowered to 18
The Viet Nam War ended in the mid 70s and minorities ceased to be conscripted and used as cannon fodder, while the wealthy such as President Bone Spurs could buy their way out by paying a friendly doctor.
Outside NYC, white flight brought Jews to the suburbs. Unlike the 1920s and 30s, now their money was welcome by home sellers
The protests of the 60s and 70s were not anti-government as they are now. By and large they were anti-war/draft, pro civil and equal rights for females, pro-abortion and birth control. These laws changed and the country moved on. Now the media exposes every bad action of a cop and the people react. Far different than when there was 15 minutes of national news on TV at 7PM. The first anti-Viet Nam War demonstration I attended in New Haven was largely white middle class people who were horrified by the body bags and nightly death toll being shown on the supper hour news,
There was no general fear that the USA would not continue. Now there are calls to remove the President and his cronies by force. I don;t believe it will occur. I think he will be removed at the ballot box.June 12, 2020 5:48 pm at 5:48 pm #18714041Participant
You didn’t think Trump would win in the first placeJune 14, 2020 8:42 am at 8:42 am #1871937akupermaParticipant
Americans (and many in the world elsewhere) have been feeling that the “end is near” since at least the 1960s. You see it in literature, pop culture, etc. Messianic movements are strong in all religions, The cure to the feeling how awful it is, is to realize how good it is. How people today are better fed (the leading food issue is obesity, it used to be starvation), healthier (even with Covid19, the death rate is lower now than in the mid-20th century – back then no one would have suggested lockdowns to deal with Covid19), and more secure (there hasn’t been a world war in over 75 years – the last city to be destroyed in any sort of warfare was Hiroshima, or at worse some (then) small cities in Korea ). Ignorance of the past leads to not realizing how well off we are.June 14, 2020 9:33 am at 9:33 am #1871949jdf007Participant
No one mentioned if all the major corporations were giving money to looters and rioters back then like they do now. They talk a lot about “mother nature”, so the plague will take care of it soon.June 17, 2020 9:35 am at 9:35 am #1873350
“the last city to be destroyed in any sort of warfare was Hiroshima” Vukovar? Aleppo??June 17, 2020 9:35 am at 9:35 am #1873354
“They brought in the National Guard” And shot four students protesting in Kent State. Which led to more protests, and really boosted the anti-war movement. Which toppled JE Hoover, director of the FBI. Then the real madness slowed down. But the FBI (and the riots) could be slowed down still more…..June 17, 2020 9:45 am at 9:45 am #1873416PekakParticipant
…June 17, 2020 12:27 pm at 12:27 pm #1873504
nOmesorah – “And shot four students protesting in Kent State. Which led to more protests, and really boosted the anti-war movement. Which toppled JE Hoover, director of the FBI. Then the real madness slowed down. But the FBI (and the riots) could be slowed down still more…..”
I really Don’t know what you’re Talking About. Obviously you weren’t around in the ’60s.
Even if you don’t have a college education or even a High School education, you can still learn things!
I know s/o who got an Education by reading World Book Enc.
You won’t get one by these Frum websites.June 19, 2020 12:05 pm at 12:05 pm #1874428
If you were around in the sixties, you may not be aware that encyclopedias are available online. From Wikipedia (Kent State shootings):
The fatal shootings triggered immediate and massive outrage on campuses around the country. More than 4 million students participated in organized walk-outs at hundreds of universities, colleges and high schools, the largest such strike in the history of the United States. The student strike of 1970 further affected public opinion at an already socially contentious time over the role of the United States in the Vietnam War.
But if you were around in the sixties, you should have known this.June 21, 2020 12:42 am at 12:42 am #1874663
nOmesorah -“Dear Health,
If you were around in the sixties, you may not be aware that encyclopedias are available online”
Well you’re right, but you can’t learn everything from encyclopedias.
You seem to have a Reading Comprehension Problem!
This is the Topic:
Topic -“For Anyone who was a Teen/Adult in the 60s”
nOmesorah – “And shot four students protesting in Kent State.”
Race Riots were in the 60s, but the Vietnam Riots started in the 70s!June 21, 2020 10:57 am at 10:57 am #1874739
I was a teen in the 1960s, I participated in the race protest during the Black Panthers Trial in New Haven n 1970
I was profoundly affected by the Kent State Massacre by the Ohio National Guard. That Jewish kid lying dead in the street with the young lady kneeling over him (that won a Pulitzer Prize) was my 3rd Cousin Jeffrey Miller. No you can;t identify me from this because the connections wre all on mothers’ sides for several generations.
That said: There were MANY Race Riots in the USA in the 1970s, to name only a few:
Asbury Park, NJ Race Riots July, 1970
Camden, NY Race Riots 1971
Escambia HS Riots Pensacola, FL 1972-1976
Boston, MA Busing Race Riots throughout the year 1974
Boston Busing Riot April 1976
Humboldt Park, Chicago June 1976
And these don;t include riots such as Attica Prison Sept 1971 that was very much a race riot as well as a prison uprising.June 21, 2020 1:31 pm at 1:31 pm #1874830
CTLawyer -“That said: There were MANY Race Riots in the USA in the 1970s, to name only a few:”
Oh of Course. Race Riots seem to be an in-thing – From then until Now!
I guess that You didn’t get the Topic of the OP.
The Killing of MLK spurred Riots. Those Riots ended in the 60’s.
The last one was in ’69.June 21, 2020 2:38 pm at 2:38 pm #1874870
The OP never mentions the killing of MLK in 1968
There were Race Riots in the 1960s that predated this, such as Watts (LA) 1965.
Race riots didn’t end in 1969.June 21, 2020 6:01 pm at 6:01 pm #1874911
CTLawyer -“The OP never mentions the killing of MLK in 1968”
True, but it was obvious that’s what he’s talking about.
“There were Race Riots in the 1960s that predated this, such as Watts (LA) 1965.”
But the Most famous ones are the MLK Riots. Why don’t you post directly to him (OP)?
“Race riots didn’t end in 1969.”
It didn’t start there & it hasn’t ENDED!
The riots because MLK was killed, stopped in 1969 in Willington, Delaware.
Do you know that they had Race Riots before Slavery Ended?
The Blacks use Slavery as an Excuse to do what they want.
I’m Not saying All Whites are Innocent; but the Saying Goes -“It takes Two to Tango”!
There were Race Riots in 1824, 1829, 1831, & 1834.June 21, 2020 8:38 pm at 8:38 pm #1874930
NO>>>>>>>>>>>>>>it is NOT obvious that the OP was specifically talking about Race Riots that followed the assassination of MLK. In fact the OP NEVER used the term Race Riots. He used the term UNREST.
I remember the Watts Riots (saw coverage in LOOK, Life and Time magazines) I attended my first anti-Viet Nam War protest in 1967.
I was at The 1968 Democratic Convention in Chicago and experienced the terror of the Riots…Thank you Mayor Daley. Heroes of the Chicago Eight included Abbie Hoffman, Jerry Rubin, Tom Hayden, Bobby Seale (also tried in New Haven 1970 Black Panthers).
So, what may be obvious to you is not to me. I had far more political exposure in the 60s than you did (so it appears).June 21, 2020 9:53 pm at 9:53 pm #1874964
CT lawyer, so President Bush was the only legal draft dodger?
Why do you think so many Jewish men became teachers? Teachers were exempt. Pro athletes got spots in the National Guard. As i said above, thousands of religious Jews paid for phony divinity deferments. By the way, i never understood the rationale of strikes on college campuses. How did stopping myself and other students from attending class have any impact on ending the war.June 21, 2020 10:27 pm at 10:27 pm #1874970
I have no idea what you are talking about…………………
I never mentioned Bush or Draft Dodging or teacher deferments from the draft.
The major reason I remember campus takeovers or demonstrations was to:
A. Get rid of ROTC and/or military Recruitment on campus
B. Stop research that aided the munitions/chemical industry
C. Protest the draft when IIS deferments ended
BTW>>>I wasn’t going if my number was called. I would have left the USAJune 21, 2020 10:45 pm at 10:45 pm #1874976DovidBTParticipant
CTL: Do you remember this?
Hey, hey, L-B-J,
How many boys did you kill to-day?June 22, 2020 10:50 am at 10:50 am #1875074
CT, ROTC had a right to be on campus, as did chemical companies and other job recruiters you happened to disapprove of. You didn’t want to associate with them? Fine, but don’t prevent others.
I apparently thought you were talking about President Bush, who joined the Air National Guard to avoid Vietnam, or you could be talking about Trump. My point was, which you avoided, was they weren’t alone. Many people finagled their way out of the draft, by buying phony divinity deferments, using connections to get teaching jobs and, yes, getting doctors to phony medical records ( the star point guard of a Brooklyn yeshiva high school basketball team got a medical deferment ).
The terror of the riots were djust as much a result of the protesters. They created the mindset of the police by announcing their plans to disrupt the conventionby whatever means, including violence, which induced the response by Daley. Then , as now, students were accustomed to disrupting colleges, occupying offices, making demands and causing destruction with little or no repercussions. They expected the same in Chicago but found out differently.June 22, 2020 2:21 pm at 2:21 pm #1875153
CTLawyer -“I had far more political exposure in the 60s than you did (so it appears).”
“is NOT obvious that the OP was specifically talking about Race Riots that followed the assassination of MLK”
Since you had more exposure than the OP, probably wasn’t even alive, so what he heard about the ’60s, was about the Race Riots, Not Vietnam.June 22, 2020 2:21 pm at 2:21 pm #1875178
ROTC has/had no right to be on any private campus, they had to seek permission from the institution.
I never prevented anyone from associating with them or job recruiters. I mentioned reason for campus dissent and disruption.
I didn’t discuss draft dodgers. You are accusing me of things that aren’t in my posts.
As for that piece of garbage Daley. He not only ordered havoc on the streets, but prevented free movement of delegates and registered attendees (such as myself..too young to be a delegate) within the convention hall.
Go attack someone who has actually posted what you pretend I did, I’m through wasting time ansering your false accusations.June 22, 2020 6:24 pm at 6:24 pm #1875227JosephParticipant
CTL, I believe any university that accepts federal funding, such as PELL grants, is by law obligated to accept the ROTC on campus. Otherwise they’ll forfeit millions in federal funding.June 22, 2020 10:11 pm at 10:11 pm #1875368
The unrest didn’t start with Kent State. In 1967 American’s were getting tired of the endless war in VN. The Spring Offensive in ’67 put a half million people on the streets of NYC to protest the war. Equal numbers were participating in DC, Chicago, Phila and across the country. The NYC demonstration birthed the Vietnam Veterans Against the War. These men and women who served organized their fellow vets where ever they could be found, the unemployment lines, college campuses. They formed coalitions with other organizations like the Panthers and Quakers, progressive Jews and Catholic Workers. Little coverage was given to them when thousands turned up in sleepy little Glassboro NJ to protest the summit between LBJ and Kosygin. We have to consider just how angry these returning vets were. Some did two tours before their 21st birthday and returned to the states to face unemployment or underemployment. Jim Crow was alive and well at VFWs across America.June 22, 2020 10:49 pm at 10:49 pm #1875377JosephParticipant
Amil: The only American women in Vietnam during the war were nurses.June 23, 2020 12:23 am at 12:23 am #1875391
And your point is?June 23, 2020 12:24 am at 12:24 am #1875392
Women in VN were nurses, clerks, medics, Drs, munitions techs and pilots radio operators, quartermasters. Just because they weren’t crawling in the mud with the grunts doesn’t make their service any less valuable.June 23, 2020 12:25 am at 12:25 am #1875409PhilParticipant
“The only American women in Vietnam during the war were nurses.”
False. Of the 11,000 women who served in the U.S. armed forces in Vietnam, most were military nurses but over 1,000 of them served as doctors, air traffic controllers, intelligence officers, clerks and in other positions. Many more served on behalf of the Red Cross, USO and other civilian organizations.June 23, 2020 11:29 am at 11:29 am #1875545
Pell grants came about in the Higher Education Act of 1972, after the SDS (and similar) sit-ins, takeovers of colleges.
Pell grants are made to students, not the colleges, so it can’t be tied to allowing ROTC on campus. Other forms of Federal Aid and Grants to the institutions have been tied to allowing ROTC on campus, but at a later date than this anti-Viet Nam War unrest (Might have been First Gulf War, but I’m not sure and not interested enough to research it).June 23, 2020 11:30 am at 11:30 am #1875547
Yes I remember that chant, along with H*ll No, I won’t go and burning draft cards.
My favorite anti-war lapel button that I wore for years read:
“War is good business, invest your son”June 23, 2020 12:52 pm at 12:52 pm #1875647
CT, you brought up draft dodging with your comment on Bone Spurs and that you’d have gone to Canada to avoid the draft.
Beooklyn College, which I graduated from in 1970 , is a public college . The Chicago protesters said they would scatter nails from highwsy overpasses , abandon cars on highways and key intersections and violently prevent delegates from attending.
So, what did they expect would be the reaction?June 23, 2020 2:04 pm at 2:04 pm #1875712
CTLawyer -“I attended my first anti-Viet Nam War protest in 1967.”
Now that you’re talking about Nam, which party, in the US, was in control during the war?
In other words, who ordered Combat troops to Nam?June 23, 2020 3:40 pm at 3:40 pm #1875752
Heath, I’m continually amazed about your inability to follow a convo. I’ve yet to see anyone but you detouring the convo as stated in the first post to who ordered combat troops to VN. Why not start a seperate thread to address your concerns?June 23, 2020 5:50 pm at 5:50 pm #1875800
AZ -“Why not start a seperate thread to address your concerns?”
I looked at your profile – you’re only here 5 years.
To answer your question – I could do that, but it’s commonplace to change from the Main Topic.
So you Should NOT Have said this – “Heath, I’m continually amazed about your inability to follow a convo.”June 23, 2020 9:24 pm at 9:24 pm #1875876
BOTH….Johnson and Nixon were in charge during the Viet Nam War. Both were Commander in Chief and ordered combat troops to IndoChina
Parties change over time. The Dems of the 1850s and 60s were pro Slavery, In 1964 they paased the Civil Rights Act
Before Reagan and the Immoral Majority and phony evangelicals, there were many fine LIBERAL Republicans, such as Rockefeller and Keating.June 24, 2020 12:51 am at 12:51 am #1875902
‘I looked at your profile – you’re only here 5 years.’ Ok when my husband registered we both read the rules. Nothing was stated about a minimum number of years membership before offering an opinion. My observation regarding your posting perhaps wasn’t sensitively worded. In the years I’ve been reading your posts I’ve observed you changing the subject.
EditedJune 24, 2020 12:56 am at 12:56 am #1875916
CTLawyer -“BOTH….Johnson and Nixon were in charge during the Viet Nam War. Both were Commander in Chief and ordered combat troops to IndoChina”
JFK & LBJ were very pro the Vietnam War. Nixon just continued & then took the US out.
But you didn’t answer the question – In other words, who ordered The First Combat troops to Nam?!?June 25, 2020 10:02 am at 10:02 am #1876376
He thoroughly answered your question. If you want a specific statement, you can post it yourself. But, I can give you a statement. The FBI was in charge then.June 25, 2020 10:02 am at 10:02 am #1876377
You claimed that they brought in the National Guard and ‘it stopped real quick’. I already pointed out, that kent State galvanized the anti-war movement. You said we should discuss the race riots. well here goes…….
1964 Harlem Three days of rioting. National Guard was not called in.
1965 Watts Six days of rioting. National Guard was called, and turned it into a war zone. Martial law. Absolute curfew. Snipers. It took a month.
1967 Detroit Around 100,000 members of the National Guard. Made it worse. Lost control of the city. LBJ sent the Army.
I am not sure what you want to say about the Sixties. But whatever it is, it seems to be a small part of the historical record.June 25, 2020 12:43 pm at 12:43 pm #1876513
nOmesorah -“He thoroughly answered your question”
He did NOT!
Here it is again -“who ordered The First Combat troops to Nam?!?”
Do you have a problem with English Comprehension?June 25, 2020 12:55 pm at 12:55 pm #1876527
nOmesorah – “You claimed that they brought in the National Guard and ‘it stopped real quick”
Ha – Ha. You bring in 3 cities out of 100 – that my post is wrong.June 25, 2020 4:21 pm at 4:21 pm #1876634
Watts, just one city of many. Besides for being the symbol of the race riots of sixties. I do not know any cities that the National Guard stopped the riots ‘real quick’. If i find one or three, I will let you know.June 25, 2020 6:16 pm at 6:16 pm #1876688
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