Friday Night Minhagim
- This topic has 61 replies, 37 voices, and was last updated 12 years, 1 month ago by WolfishMusings.
February 17, 2011 6:29 am at 6:29 am #741630
Since the paths of the ?’ ????? ??? in the sky are not typically constrained by the decision of any government to abide by DST, I would say yes. The same would be true of ???? ??????.
True enough. But since they’re also not constrained by the government decision to establish time zones, shouldn’t the time not to make kiddush be (approximately) 5:30-6:30 at the eastern end of the time zone, progressing later and later as you move west in the time zone until it’s from 6:30 to 7:30 at the western end of the time zone?
The WolfFebruary 17, 2011 7:54 am at 7:54 am #741631Derech HaMelechMember
Something like that. If you know your longitude you can calculate it out. I don’t remember the cheshbon. There is a really thick sefer that discusses time-related mitzvos. In it he explains how.February 17, 2011 1:08 pm at 1:08 pm #741632600 Kilo BearMember
In my community we do use shaois zmaniois and not secular clock hours to determine when not to make kiddush. We come out between 5.40 and 6.40 or so during the three or four shabbosim when it is an issue here.
What happens if you have Martians as Shabbos guests? Can they say kiddush at that hour?February 17, 2011 3:19 pm at 3:19 pm #741633
Just out of curiosity, for those in this thread who said that they don’t make kiddush between 6 and 7, do you account for DST and for your position within the time zone, or is it strictly 6 and 7. (Don’t worry… I’m not going to jump down your throat if you don’t account for one or the other… I’m just curious.)
The WolfFebruary 17, 2011 5:13 pm at 5:13 pm #741634smartcookieMember
Wolf- I never thought about that because I guess that time of the year the Zman for Shabbos is only at 7-8 o’clock, so Kiddush is a lot later than that.
But if you’d like, I can ask my hub for a full explanation (if my rusty head will remember!).February 17, 2011 5:48 pm at 5:48 pm #741635BowwowParticipant
In my home we wash for motzie, then make kiddush on wine,drink the wine followed by hamotzie on the challahFebruary 17, 2011 5:48 pm at 5:48 pm #741636Derech HaMelechMember
Are you sure that you are using shaos zmaniyos and not calculating for your place along the time zone? Do you know why you use shaos zmaniyos instead of shaos shavos if you do?
I think Martians would do the same as their hosts do. Which is not so surprising since Canadians would too.February 17, 2011 6:58 pm at 6:58 pm #741637
Just to elaborate on DH’s last post:
Sha’ah Z’manios would tell you the length of your 6-7pm “hour.”
Your position within your time zone would tell you when that “hour” starts (regardless of how long it is).
The position in your time zone explains why some places start Shabbos earlier (and have sof z’man krias sh’ma, etc.) than others in the same time zone. Since (just to give an example) New York is further east than Scranton PA, sunset comes to New York before it comes to Scranton. So (just to pick numbers out of thin air) if Shabbos begins at 5:30pm in New York, it might begin at 5:47pm in Scranton. So too, the midpoint between noon and midnight (which is what the 6:00 hour is) would be earlier in New York than in Scranton.
To further understand why this is so, you might want to read a bit on the history of time zones:
The WolfFebruary 17, 2011 7:51 pm at 7:51 pm #741638PeerimsameachParticipant
my father daances with all the kinder and during aishes chayil they all bow towards y mother. nd wen he bentchs us he smetimes creis and when he bentchs the girls he puts a napkin fr tznius and tumah bcz f the scalp..we wear yalmukahs.February 17, 2011 7:59 pm at 7:59 pm #741639smartcookieMember
Peerim- covering a duaghter’s head when bentching her has nothing to do with Tnius. We do it because touching the scalp can make the father’s hand Tamah (as you mentioned above).February 17, 2011 8:05 pm at 8:05 pm #741640canineMember
You should only bow to Hashem.February 17, 2011 8:15 pm at 8:15 pm #741641
You should only bow to Hashem.
Bowing as a sign of respect (where there is no aspect of deification) is perfectly permitted.
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