July 15, 2016 3:34 am at 3:34 am #617979YW Moderator-42Moderator
Today’s attack in France occurred on the eve of Friday of parshas chukas. Hundreds of years ago, on Friday of parshas chukas, 24 cartloads of Jewish manuscripts were burned in France. Some have the minhag to fast on Friday of Chukas because of it. S”A O”C 580 (M”A).
That tragedy also occurred on the 9th of Tammuz like it falls out this yearJuly 15, 2016 4:16 am at 4:16 am #1159426Mashiach AgentMember
“Some have the minhag to fast on Friday of Chukas because of it. S”A O”C 580 (M”A)”
it is against halacha to ever fast on any erev Shabbos i.e. fridayJuly 15, 2016 4:26 am at 4:26 am #1159427
MA, is that your made up halachah of the day?July 15, 2016 9:05 am at 9:05 am #1159428Abba_SParticipant
Is anyone calling for Truck Control as they call for Gun Control after similar tragedies? Denying Muslims the right to drive will greatly reduce the chances of this happening again.July 15, 2016 11:39 am at 11:39 am #1159429147Participant
YW Moderator-42:- FYI YW Moderator-42, there are far stronger & more compelling reasons for associating ?” ???? ‘ with a ???. I refer you to ?????? ??? ?”? ???? ? where it is clearly delineated that siege of ??????? was on ?” ???? . I am old enough to remember, that when I was growing up, we would fast on ?” ???? and observe the ??? ?????? for an entire month, with no fast on ?”? ????.July 15, 2016 12:49 pm at 12:49 pm #1159430
it is against halacha to ever fast on any erev Shabbos i.e. friday
So, I guess when 10 Teves comes out on Friday, you don’t fast?
I don’t know about you, but I do. And if that makes me a rasha, a Maskil or a Reform Jew or whatever other language you would want to use to disparage me for ignoring your “halacha” then so be it.
The WolfJuly 15, 2016 1:23 pm at 1:23 pm #1159431
or whatever other language you would want to use
My language for you is tzadik and lamed-vov’nik.July 15, 2016 1:29 pm at 1:29 pm #1159432
“it is against halacha to ever fast on any erev Shabbos i.e. friday”
Do you EVER stop and consider what you are writing before you do so? You are aware that the minhag mentioned was not made up by some random anonymous coffee room user, it is brought down by the Magen Avraham in the name of the Shibolei Haleket. A closed mouth, never gathers a foot.July 15, 2016 2:13 pm at 2:13 pm #1159433
Abba_S: Did you see the NYT headline?July 15, 2016 4:27 pm at 4:27 pm #1159434Geordie613Participant
NoJuly 15, 2016 5:59 pm at 5:59 pm #1159435Mashiach AgentMember
So, I guess when 10 Teves comes out on Friday, you don’t fast?
whenever a fast-except yom kippur-comes out either on friday or Shabbos it is made into a “Nidcheh” which means friday is pushed back to fast on thursday instead & Shabbos is pushed forward to fast on Sunday.July 15, 2016 6:04 pm at 6:04 pm #1159436
MA, please tell me what day of the week we will fast in in ???”? and ???”?.
Also, please tell me what this means (Mishnah Berurah 550:6):
??? ?? ?? ?? ???? ???? ??? ?????? ?????? ?????July 15, 2016 6:17 pm at 6:17 pm #1159437adocsParticipant
You are wrong.
When 10 teves falls on friday, we DO fast on that day.
Likewise if erev pesach falls on friday, the taanis bechorim is on friday.
And just to get the terminology straight – it is only a nidche if pushed off i.e. Shabbos to sunday. If it is pushed earlier (as taanis esther sometimes is) its called a mukdamJuly 15, 2016 6:19 pm at 6:19 pm #1159438
MA. With one exception, the tenth of teves. In fact, two years ago Asara Bteves occured on friday and jews all over the word fasted on that friday (well, I guess except you).July 15, 2016 6:28 pm at 6:28 pm #1159439
I think MA is entitled to make a mistake without getting beaten up over it.July 15, 2016 6:31 pm at 6:31 pm #1159440
It’s one thing to make a mistake. It’s another thing to repeat it even when corrected.July 15, 2016 7:03 pm at 7:03 pm #1159441
MA: Where do you get this Amaratzus from?
Oh, and you’re doubly wrong. Tishah B’av and 17 Tammuz can’t fall out on a Friday, but if they did we would fast on Friday. It’s an explicit Gemara that we don’t make these fasts earlier.July 15, 2016 11:30 pm at 11:30 pm #1159442YW Moderator-42Moderator
147, what is the source for not fasting on the 17th of Tammuz?July 17, 2016 2:14 am at 2:14 am #1159443adocsParticipant
“I am old enough to remember, that when I was growing up, we would fast on ?” ???? and observe the ??? ?????? for an entire month, with no fast on ?”? ????.”
What in the world are you talking about? When was this ever done”July 17, 2016 3:27 am at 3:27 am #1159444I. M. ShluffinParticipant
He obviously grew up in the pre-churban era.July 17, 2016 3:32 am at 3:32 am #1159445DrYiddParticipant
A bit of Torah knowledge would help, especially for Mashiach Agent. YK can never occur on friday because of lo adu rosh. that obviously makes Tzom gedalia never able to fall on friday. because the calendar from pesach to tishrei is fixed, tisha bav and shiva aser be’tammuz never fall on friday. because 2 of the months between tishrei and adar, can have 29 or 30 days, asarah betevet can occur on friday and we fast. when to end the fast once shabbat starts is a machloket at least currently. a personal taanit or a community taanit like erev parshat chukat can happen on friday.
we do not realize that in the communities of ashkenaz (then largely germany and northern france) ALMOST ALL copies of the talmud and other manuscripts were destroyed and there was no printing until 300 years later.July 17, 2016 5:02 am at 5:02 am #1159446
42: I was told that in Europe there were some communities with the custom to fast the 9th and not the 17th, even though it’s against all the Sefarim. Supposedly it’s a very old Minhag. But I never really looked into it in detail.July 17, 2016 9:50 am at 9:50 am #1159447rabbiofberlinParticipant
It always amazes me that, in the past, we initiated a special day of fast or praying for any calamity that occurred, even if minor. Yet, for the greatest calamity of them all, the Holocaust, nothing has ever been scheduled.July 17, 2016 11:55 am at 11:55 am #1159448ubiquitinParticipant
“YK can never occur on friday because of lo adu rosh.”
Technically its the opposite, lo adu rosh So that YK wont fall on a Friday (ie the “d Wednesday” of adu) but the gist of your post is correct.
What confuses me most about your post isnt the fact that we do in fact occasionally fast on Friday and never push a fast that falls on Friday early fine, you forgot hat we did a few years ago, ITs that why would you argue on the MAgen Avraham?
You quoted the M”A and said it was against halacha?July 17, 2016 12:02 pm at 12:02 pm #1159449
Ubiquitin, he is not aware of the Mogen Avraham.July 17, 2016 12:10 pm at 12:10 pm #1159450
YW Moderator-42, I’m very sorry to break this to you and have your exciting theory tumble down, but in Eretz Yisroel this was takkeh parshas Balak, and I think that should count more than what parsha it was in the Galus.July 17, 2016 12:30 pm at 12:30 pm #1159451
stam, I hate to break it to you, but Eretz Yisroel is in galus.July 17, 2016 12:31 pm at 12:31 pm #1159452
We are all in galus, no matter where we live.
Last I checked, France, where this occurred, is not in Eretz Yisroel.July 17, 2016 12:36 pm at 12:36 pm #1159453ubiquitinParticipant
he quoted it in his first postJuly 17, 2016 12:36 pm at 12:36 pm #1159454
stam: In France, where the attack occurred, it was Chukas.July 17, 2016 12:38 pm at 12:38 pm #1159455
He was quoting the OP. He never actually looked it up. He assumed that since he “knows” we never fast on Friday, it must not really say that.July 17, 2016 12:49 pm at 12:49 pm #1159456147Participant
In 5784 & 5785 we are about to be observing ???? ?”??? two years running on a Friday:- This shall be 1st time since 51 years earlier, being 2 years running on Friday.
So, I guess when 10 Teves comes out on Friday, you don’t fast? Moshiach agent:- From the way you are writing, I surmise that you Moshiach agent hold that when you ???-????? comes out on ??? that you don’t fast, since ordinarily, fasting is off limits on ???, like it ordinarily is on Fridays.July 17, 2016 3:49 pm at 3:49 pm #1159457
I think MA is entitled to make a mistake without getting beaten up over it.
Not when you double down after your error has been pointed out to you. When I pointed out to him that we fast on 10 Teves when it falls out on Friday, he could have done any number of things:
He could have looked up the halacha himself to see if he is right or wrong
He could have asked someone if he is right or wrong
He could have spent five minutes using Google to see if he’s right or wrong
He could have said “Hmmm… you might be right, but I’d like to check further before conceding the point.”
However, instead of even considering the possibility that someone else might be right, he chose to instead to further insist on his correctness.
The WolfJuly 17, 2016 4:13 pm at 4:13 pm #1159458
From the way you are writing, I surmise that you Moshiach agent hold that when you ???-????? comes out on ??? that you don’t fast
To be fair, he did make the point above that Yom Kippur is an exception (emphasis mine).
whenever a fast-except yom kippur-comes out either on friday or Shabbos
The WolfJuly 18, 2016 6:16 am at 6:16 am #1159459
Parshas Chikes speaks about masey bnei yisroel to the heilige eretz yisroel, and you all use that parsha to prove something glusdikke? A shanda.July 18, 2016 1:47 pm at 1:47 pm #1159460
stam_a_yid: For the second time, Eretz Yisroel is also in golus.
edited to remove rude, derogatory name calling. Consider it a favor to your cheshbon haNefeshJuly 18, 2016 6:42 pm at 6:42 pm #1159461RedlegParticipant
Wrong again, Joey!July 18, 2016 7:11 pm at 7:11 pm #1159462
Oh, c’mon, mod. Calling someone “dude” isn’t the heights of rude and derogatory.
Of course it’s not. But I have very high standards for mentchlichkite. Baruch Hashem.
Redleg: Thanks for bumping the thread. I almost missed that note. Which part of galus are you in? Eretz Yisroel or chutz l’aretz? (Or did your moshiach come already?)July 18, 2016 7:22 pm at 7:22 pm #1159463RedlegParticipant
Here’s a question for you, Joey. What constitutes Golus? Is it the lack of the Beis Hamiqdash? Were the Jews who returned to E’Y from Bavel still in golus until the B’H was built? Or is is it the in gathering of the Jewish People to E’Y? Note that Bayis Sheini did not require overt Divine intervention to build and that during the entire period of Bayis Sheini, the majority of Jews still lived in Ch’L. Is it Jewish independent rule? After centuries of vassalege successively to the New Babylonian, Persian and Selucid empires, the successful Maccabean revolt left Israel an Independent, self-governing nation. Were the Jews still in Golus? Even though the Hasmoneans were not the halachic rulers of Israel and weren’t exactly “frum” either (Alexander Yanai, arguably the most successful Hasmonian king, was famously opposed to rabbinic tradition)?
I submit that a case can be made that, even though the B’H is yet to be built, and even though the current government of the Medina is no more halachic than the Hasmoneans, the rise of an independent Jewish State on the historical, G-d given, land of Israel constitutes, at least, the prerequisites for the end of golus, may it be complete bemeirah beyameinu.July 18, 2016 8:18 pm at 8:18 pm #1159464
“I submit that a case can be made”
You’re not the first to try to make that case. At least you deserve credit for admitting you are, at most, “making a case” rather than claiming to have proven so. There’s hope you will realize the truth.July 19, 2016 7:02 am at 7:02 am #1159465
I hope you don’t live in eretz yisroel since you would probably be oiver on all mitzvois hatluyois baaretz, given your view that you’re in golus.July 19, 2016 8:12 am at 8:12 am #1159466
stam, I hope your Jewish even given your views on the coming of the messiah and end of exile having already occurred.July 19, 2016 1:35 pm at 1:35 pm #1159467
This is a silly semantics conversation. Joseph is defining Golus by a period in time. Others are defining it as a place. You probably both agree that Eretz Yisrael has some unique Halachos and that Moshiach has not yet arrived.July 19, 2016 1:50 pm at 1:50 pm #1159468
The correct term for outside Eretz Yisroel is chutz la’aretz.July 19, 2016 2:25 pm at 2:25 pm #1159469
The year the seforim were burned in france, r’l, on erev shabbos parshas chukas, what parsha was leined that shabbos in e’y?December 25, 2020 10:50 am at 10:50 am #1931969
I wonder if Moshiach Agent is fasting today…
The WolfDecember 25, 2020 12:38 pm at 12:38 pm #1931992Reb EliezerParticipant
The Avudraham points out that we fast the 10th of Teves any day as it says b’etzem hayom hazeh, this very day. It is aschalte depuroniyos, the start of punishment, culminating with the destruction of the temple in two and half years.
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