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A frugal mindset leads to emotional wellbeing
We need a guide on how to live on a shoestring budget.
UJM
that mindset which comes from a financial psychologist is to live by
“GET WHAT YOU NEED NOT WHAT YOU WANT ”
Then you will not be tight on money. Sure everyone should go out for date night with their spouse but to go as a bochur just to have a steak dinner is called crazy.none2.0, I’m very into saving money and living with less, but with everything in life, there is something called balance, and many times there are decisions to be made.
Ex- should I live in a more expensive area for my yiddishkeit (frummer neighbors, better shuls etc.)?
Should I work longer hours and take more cleaning help?
If I cancel the cleaning help will I be a stressed mother vs a calmer mother with some cleaning help?
Yes, money is a tool- but sometimes people are so frugal that they can’t live calm, happy lives.
And what works for 1 person, doesn’t work for others.
My belief: spend on YOUR needs, not for others, and not for what’s considered normal.
And live with a budget.Sorry
I am perfectly able to go into a store with far more money that the cost of the item I seek to purchase; and not spend any of the extra money.I make a list of what I want to buy before shopping and do not add impulse items to my cart.
Buying secondhand is not the answer to everything. I don’t want clothing or bedding used or worn by others, same with upholstered furniture. Not taking a chance on what might be inside to make me sick.
I prefer a full manufacturer’s warranty on automobiles, and high end appliances, HVAC equipment, etc.
No difference in a new versus used diamonds and I buy used serforim regularly.
It’s about buying what you can afford comfortable while meeting all you obligations such as maaser.
I am with none the 2nd for delegating cleaning to the family. Amom, it might drive you insane first to force your children to clean after themselves, but this will pay off longer-term.
Ex-CTL: Would you buy a used car? What about drive someone else’s car or rent one? Aren’t you, similarly, taking a chance on what might be inside to make you sick?
Re:
Cleaning, lawn care, manual labor, etc.Sometimes it makes economic sense to pay people to do these things.
I am a septuagenarian, as is my spouse. No one else left in the home.
Why would we clean the house or cut the lawn when we can hire someone to do it for $25-40 per hour and our professional time is billed in the hundreds of dollars per hour rates?
When I see these posts, they are generally from from young people struggling with the costs of setting up households, educating, feeding and clothing children, etc.
I am the first to say: don’t live beyond your means, but I also don’t believe one must live below one’s means. If HaShem has given you a larger allotment and you take care of maaser and help your family and community you are entitled to enjoy the fruits of your labor.
AAQ- My kids are very young and while they have jobs, they are not cleaning the toilets.
And for me, the menuchas hanefesh of having someone give my house a good cleaning is worth a lot.
I try to be a good Jew, wife, mother, daughter and employee etc. I am not such a good cleaning lady and that’s okay.
On the other hand, I enjoy the kitchen and barely buy takeout, cheap clothing is good enough for my kids (as long as they are young enough not to care) and there are other ways where I save money.
Like I say, make a budget and please spend on your OWN needs.
Feel free to disagree.None
You don’t know me or my lifestyleI drive a 6 year old car that I bought new and paid cash for. It replaced a 15 year old car that is still being driven by one of my grandchildren.
Yes my suits and shirts are made for me but they are classic in style and last a very long time. The suit and shirts are made I wore this past Shabbos were made in 2007.
Not being an off the rack size, the cost of remaking someone else’s clothing eould cost more than new.
I worked and paid for my own college and law education made my way in business and family.
I am not extravagant but do enjoy comfort.I don’t enjoy being criticized by youngsters who haven’t experienced life.
Not only did I pay for all of my children’s educations, but quite a few others as well.
I currently am providing stipends to a number of yeshiva boys and seminary girls whose parents manage to come up with the tuition but not that necessary pocket money.
I do this because HaShem makes it possibleamom,
I am not arguing with your lifestyle choices, H’Sh. Just discussing theory here. There are not that many demeaning tasks in the house that your kids are not capable of doing. As my kids report, many of their friends have no idea about chores, they have non-English speaking cleaning stuff doing everything for them. When in camp, they struggle with very simple support. And some, not all, of these families rely on public assistance to cover their non-working lifestyle. What is going to happen with these kids, especially girls, when they become responsible for their own household with husbands learning and limited income? As gemora says in Kiddushin ~ 29 – a father not teaching his son a profession is teaching him robbery (listut).None 2.0, I don’t think EX CT sounds out of touch.
Yes, he has more money; he can afford certain “luxuries” that you feel he should be frugal on, but he prefers not. There are many ways to be frugal, and it’s personal.
Honestly, as per the rental thread, it seems like he charges below market prices when he could charge more. Seems like a very fair person.
Personally, I buy second-hand furniture, but I wouldn’t buy second-hand clothing. I would, though, take second-hand clothing from people I know.
To me, having control over money= budgeting. Did you ever try that?
One thing I do know is not to judge what other people spend as we don’t know their true needs and what’s really going on in their lives.@amom
Thanks, you understand what I post.As for used furniture, I would consider wood pieces such as a table, bookcase, etc (in fact my office desk is an antique I purchased 50 years ago from a retiring attorney).
However, I would not buy any used furniture with fabric, padding, etc. Too big a risk of bedbugs, dust mites, allergens, etc.Ex-CTL: please see my question above as to whether you ever rent a car.
@ AAQ
“As gemora says in Kiddushin ~ 29 – a father not teaching his son a profession is teaching him robbery (listut).”
Do you think that all the Rebbeim who advocate Kollel somehow missed this Chazal? Also, why are you cherry picking? The Tana Kama over there holds that teaching iska is sufficient. R’ Nehorai at the end of the tractate says he sets aside every trade and doesn’t teach his son anything except for Torah. R’ Moshe holds that Today that we have Kollelim, learning in Kollel is a profession.
NP,
if looking at big picture, I think we live in unprecedented times for last 300 years, and we did not yet learn how to live with the society that changed so much. We know how many opinions existed at previous crises – Bavel, destruction of 2nd BM, encounters with Greeks, Romans, Christianity and Islam …Looking at last 80 years: we have chareidi yesshiva or chasidic, RZ, “modern O”, Chabad approaches, each having their own achievements and downsides. We need to look honestly at that. Charedi approach achieved tremendous successes in creating and keeping large communities from remnants of what existed in Eastern Europe. I very much understand R Kotler’s approach confronted with American Jews who were so excited with material success that their children would join “American dream” with many of those assimilating. On the other hand, I see several issues that charedi approach does not address:
1) there are multitudes of Jews outside of their area of influence. They are not evil just because they are not wearing black hats. They are same type of Jews that we had in other communities over centuries. The difference is that they now can exist outside of Jewish communities. It is a big challenge of modernity. They need to be cared of. Chabad does a lot here. This was immediate goal of R Soloveitchik in 1930s – create serious observant Rabbis who can run shuls for these people (many of whom lived in small towns at the time).
2) how do we address modernity in a long term? do we pretend it did not happen and live like before? do we address those issues? On one hand, I find R Soloveitchik compelling when he writes (in 1950s): if we claim to have Truth from Hashem, then we should be addressing the world with our solutions, not hiding in the caves. At some point, if we refuse to live in the world Hashem gave us _today_, then we are not witnesses of Hashem’s Torah to the world… On the other hand, at what speed? It does seem legitimate to proceed slowly. As R Steinsaltz used to say, ask us in 50 years about halochos of electricity, ask us in 100 years about what was the meaning of Shoah, we are an old religion that takes time to come to conclusions.
3) when you understand that there are multiple legitimate approaches, and we might not know yet which one is right, and most likely each one is partially right, then there is a way to see who is reasonable – the one who appreciate at least some value in other movements, when they are doing it l’shem shamayim. There are many who do, and there are many who just advocate for their own movement.
NP, on Kiddushin – Gemorah gives us ideas here, not necessarily final answers that may depend on social conditions. You can see it in the gemora itself. For example, they learned and then married in Israel and opposite in Bavel – because they did not dorm in Israel.
So, when there is an opportunity to have reliable businesses without umanut – gezunte heig. This was during years of R Moshe, where one could have run a local store in Brooklyn and have an honest living. If you see now yeshiva graduates trying to outsell each other on Amazon selling same smartphones, then it is an issue if metziyt: is this working or not?
Same goes for the siyum of Kiddushin: R Nehorai dramatic statement is there for the siyum, but it follows multiple Rabbis going into details of what is a good profession. Some notice that he says “to my son”. As most people at that time went into professions, obviously, the other opinions were important.
And, again – it is matter of facts: if R Nehorai’s son would have parnosa or middos problems, he would surely change his approach. As R Aha Yaakov does in the original sugya: where he confirms that his son is learning worse than him, so he lives the kid to work in the field and goes to learn himself.
NP> R’ Moshe holds that Today that we have Kollelim, learning in Kollel is a profession.
Well, not “today”, but 2-3 generations back.
1) does R Moshe approve of taking government funds that are allocated for people who are not able to work?
2) what would R Moshe say about situation after leaving kollel, when the person is not able to find a comfortable job, as recommended at the end of Kiddushin?
This problem actually has a solution: yeshiva should be responsible for the well-being of the graduates. If the student later on has job (and because of that) shidduch or marital problems, then yeshiva pays from their direct budget expenses for unemployment; for retraining; for marital counseling; for tuition and apartments for children. As Alter from Navordok said when someone suggested that he will donate a share of his olam haba to someone ilvolved in public mitzvos – how about donating some of your share in olam haze?I don’t drive other people’s personal cars.
As you renting a car. It is something I do when traveling on business and I check to see that the car had been thoroughly cleaned and specify that it have vinyl or leather seats (not cloth).
This occurs a few times a year at most.I can’t totally avoid contact with others furniture etc. such as a meeting in another attorney’s conference room.
But that casual contact is different than bring the used item into my home or regular use such as a car.none2> that’s delusional cuz that’s the parents job
When R Kotler opened his yeshiva, he had to convince parents to send kids to the yeshiva instead of college – and parents were able to pay. A couple of generations later, parents are unable to support next generation. The idea of yeshivos being responsible for the graduates is not mine. This is being discussed as a solution for college problem, where third parties/government are lending money with no controls: let colleges provide loans to students and then recover based on their earnings. I think, this is way more applicable to yeshivos, especially those that raised several generations of students. If they were confronted with the responsibility for future of their students, rabbonim will have more information about what they need to learn.
None
I never used the term dirty clothes.
Not all used clothing comes from wealthy people.
I explained that I do not take chances on used fabric items for health reasons.
You are free to do what you want.None 2.0 I guess we have different ways of expressing ourselves.
I personally would have started this thread- it’s so important to be frugal. Here are some ways that one can be frugal…..
Does anyone have other ideas?
In theory, I totally agree with this thread. Yes, we should be more careful with our money. Yes, it does make one happier when they are in control etc. etc.
I’m not sure why your thread comes across as attacking to anyone that disagrees with you, and when I see that, I fight back. It bothers me when you call people delusional or out of touch. I guess that’s where my feelings kick in. Maybe I’m too sensitive.Ex-CTL: Can we confirm that you never sleep on used fabric in hotel rooms, never drive used cars from car rental agencies, never eat or drink from used utensils served in fancy or standard restaurants or wedding venues?
@ujm
You need to get a lifeDishes, flatware, glassware are not fabric and are washed in hot water
As for hotels (I don’t use the often) but pack a vinyl mattress cover and pillow covers in my suitcase. I tip the housekeeper to strip the bed, put these covers on and place freshly laundered bed linen and blankets on the bed.
I will use the freshly laundered towels in the bathroom.
We went away for a Pesach program this year, traveling via car and stopped at Home Goods and bought new pillows to take with us to avoid dust mite issuesI previously answered your car rental question; and I don’t take Uber or car services.
I no longer do much travel
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