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Is it something that is specifically not litvish? Can someone who grew up Litvish put on a gartel without it being disrespectful to his minhag? Why do some chasidim wear thick gartels and others thinner ones?
Garters separate the head from the lower part of the body, and some have thicker heads thsn others …. anyway, a tie fulfills the minimum requirement.
A bigger question is – if you have zechus to belong to a menorah focused on intellectual achievements – why do you suddenly care about adding a string around your waist? You don’t feel frum enough because someone else doing something you don’t? Maybe look up some minhagim of say Rav Salanter or Alter from Slobodka, I am sure you’ll find some middos you can still work on. But maybe a belt is an easier path to feeling frum.
You can do whatever you _want_ just matters how much you care about what other people think of you
“Garters separate the head from the lower part of the body, and some have thicker heads thsn others …. anyway, a tie fulfills the minimum requirement.“
Aaq,
Does that mean the same holds true for thicker ties?
Gartels aren’t a specifically Chasidish thing. Litvish Yeshivos like, for example, Yeshiva Rabbeinu Chaim Berlin also wear Gartels.
I always heard the elastic waistband on underwear took the place of a gartel & the waistband accomplishes the exact same thing.
“Garters separate the head from the lower part of the body….”
AAQ: Huh?? Garters are part of varbeshe lvush that are used to hold up stuff we don’t need to discuss here. In any event, they have nothing to do with the chassideshe lvush which is what the OP was about
Gartel is not a chassidus thing.
It originates from early mesachtes shaboss and is brought jn the reshonim and poskim.
Some later poksem clarify that it really depends if the custom is to wear the gartel or belt for better ocassions, as was done in those days. Nowdays, its not done.
Opinion: The concept of a gartel is a special garment for tefillah. Shulchan Aruch 98:4 וראוי שיהיו לו מלבושים נאים מיוחדים לתפלה כמו בגדי כהונה
(The “separation” concept is fulfilled with today’s pants.) A gartel belongs and looks nice with a long jacket to help close the jacket – like a typical kittel or long raincoat has. But it makes no sense to wear with a short jacket. It’s not a “nice garment” when worn with a short jacket.Those that wear the gartel with the short jacket is because they are keeping the mesorah of their parents, etc. But to start it now…?
Here’s some other ideas to improve davening: 1) come on time 2) look in the siddur 3) buy and bring your own siddur 4) have a minyan kavuah 5) buy and bring your own table shtender. 5) sometimes less shuckeling helps!
anyway, a tie fulfills the minimum requirement?
The purpose of the gartel is להפסיק בין לבו לערוה.
How does a tie help for that? Unless…….Sorry, you are incorrect about garters.
They are used to hold up hosiery, not just by women.
Long before American men wore stretch socks, a garter was used to cinch or secure the sock near the top to keep it from falling down.
I still own our cotton lisle dress socks that are size specific and have no elastic in them (binds circulation) that are held up by garters under my trousers.Being both old and having grow up in the clothing business I know about these things.
Gartel: = “Waist Material”
Just visiting is in the right place. The shailoh is not about gartels, but about low self esteem that someone from one tradition wants to pickup a different tradition because, presumably, it look frummer.
Just visiting suggests other ways to enhance your religiosity. To my taste, this list is a little self centered, especially schlepping your own siddur and shtender. I prefer to use same shul siddur, especially old worn ones that people from previous generation used. You can also buy some shtenders for the shul if it needs them. Also try to attend a shul that is struggling with getting a minyan and come on days where problem is the biggest. Also, path legally near the shul and leave space for pedestrians to walk buy, do not stand in hot shul blocking cols air.
On thicker ties: yes. Mine is thin and sharp.
Reb mutche, you got the joke: for a litvak, it is enough to separate the brain.
The joke goes, that since the purpose of the gartel is להפסיק בין לבו לערוה,
The Chassid wears a gartel around his waist.
The Litvak wears a tie around his neck.
The Arab wears a kafiya on his head.reb mutche, this joke is old – before Litvakim encountered modern Arabs, unless this joke is from the time of the Tannaim.
Just Visiting
The SA was written in a time before modern clothing manufacture. If you look up “belt” on WIKI you will see its purpose was to give shape to a shapeless garment. In the old days, garments were manufactured on looms in rectangles and had no shape. So if you went to see an important person you “dressed up” by putting on a belt.
I find it very hard to believe that a gartel is considered “dressing up”. It does not add shape to modern tailored clothing, just the opposite, it makes the garments look weird.
Furthermore, I have yet to see anyone put on a gartel to meet the president. It does not fulfill (IMO) the purpose of the belt worn by the cohen, it neither cinches a rectangular garment (that the cohen wore) nor is it ornamental.
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