Topic: Gastric Brooding Tzfardeah

This topic has 5 replies, 3 voices, and was last updated 5 years, 9 months ago by Uber_Chacham.

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January 6, 2018 6:47 pm at 6:47 pm #1443691

Uber_Chacham
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Ever since I was a little kid, I always heard that by Tzfardeah, after the Mitzrim hit the big frog (HAtzfrardeah), little frogs (crocodiles) came out of the big one’s mouth. Does anyone know where this comes from? Every mekor that I could find for this says that it gave birth – the gemara in Sanhedrin and the medresh both say וישרצו, which, as rashi in chulin points out means specifically giving birth, and the Zohar uses a lashon of וילודו, which is definitely giving birth as well. Even tough rashi just uses a lashon of ויצאו ממנה, he is just quoting the medresh, and I wouldn’t want to make up that he is being cholek and holds that they came out of the mouth from there. Anyone know where this comes from?

(As an aside, why is Rashi paskening like R’ Akiva from the gemara in Sanhedren, when the maskana (in particular lfi the Mharsha) is not like him?)

(It might just be an American meshugas – none of my Israeli or English friends have ever heard of such a thing)

January 6, 2018 9:44 pm at 9:44 pm #1443774

iacisrmma
Participant

Sorry but it is not an “American Meshugas”. It’s in the Misrash Agada.

http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=33177&st=&pgnum=148

January 6, 2018 9:46 pm at 9:46 pm #1443778

iacisrmma
Participant

And it is quoted by Rashi on the passuk….the term used is UMATIZ which means to spray or splatter

http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=33588&st=&pgnum=81

January 7, 2018 8:03 am at 8:03 am #1443880

Uber_Chacham
Participant

While the Medresh Agada does say umatezes, the same lashon as Rashi (you’re right, I mixed up his lashon), why would that mean anything different than the gemara, medresh rabba and tanchuma, and zohar? Is umatezes specifically a lashon involving the mouth? As far as I can tell it just means to spew out from it, which, unless there is another mekor involving the mouth, should mean giving birth.

January 7, 2018 8:05 am at 8:05 am #1443888

MalachOfCholent
Participant

It’s not an “american meshugas” i know a lot of israelis that grew up with this such as myself and with me the whole school.

January 7, 2018 9:12 am at 9:12 am #1443918

Uber_Chacham
Participant

@MOC – I don’t want to say that it is an american meshugas, I just want to know of a mekor – I’ve been looking for one for ten years now, and I’ve started to think that maybe there isn’t one. But please, I’d be much happier to say that it is real, just tell me where it comes from.

January 7, 2018 4:41 pm at 4:41 pm #1444081

iacisrmma
Participant

This is the way Rashi in chumash has been interpreted for years. That it is different then then his pshat in the gemora is a kasha on Rashi. The simple pshat of matiz is to spit which indicates the mouth. Also, the gemora does not mention that the mitzriim hit the frog which is mentioned in the medrash.

January 7, 2018 7:32 pm at 7:32 pm #1444200

Uber_Chacham
Participant

Do you know of anywhere else that matezes means from the mouth? Normally it just means to spray or spew, and in the context of rashi it is going on the nechilim, which would mean that it is not talking about the method of leaving the frog at all. Regardless, until there is a mekor that is befaresh not like the gemara, medresh rabba, and zohar, I would assume that that is what rashi means.
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