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As usual, i couldn’t find the answer to this online. I notice that Naomi Nachman’s Pesach dip (marinated eggplant) includes lemon juice. My question is, when putting that on matza, would that be gebrok?
I’m asking this because i absentmindedly added about 1/2 TB water to my tomato dip recipe to thin it out for health reasons, so as to make it a bit less fat-saturated. And in case you ask, yes, i used Light Mayo.
But the truth is, the dip is a mayo texture, so for the life of me, i don’t see how on earth that should be considered gebrok just because it may contain a tiny bit of water?
So now i’m wondering if it would be OK to dip the matza in it on Pesach (or even Shabbos Hagadol). Anyone know?
Any liquid on matzah is gebrochts.
Ask your LOR what is part of the custom as it is not a halacha.
ujm
Not necessarily see last line https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=25074&st=&pgnum=486
ywnjudy
There isnt really “hilchos Gebrokts” It is a minhag, keeping minhagim are important. The exact nature of the minhag varies some are makpid on keilim some are not. Some are makpid only on cooked dishes or something that is soaked not if it gets wet 30 seconds before it goes in your mouth (where it will get wet anyway) .Of course some won’t even put it on the table .
So ywnjudy is it “ok” to dip the matza n it on PEsach?
Well there is some water so strictly speaking it is Gebroks. If your family is very strict then don’t dip it. If sort of strict go for it.Shabbos Hagadol you have a different issue, as matzah shouldn’t be eaten next Shabbos Erev Pesach
Did anyone hear of a Minhag by some people who do not eat gebrochts but nevertheless will eat matzah in a bowl of milk??
I think the biggest problem is that someone would look on line for the answer to a halachic shaila.
ywnjudy: What I saw was plain (round) hand matzah broken in pieces put into a bowl with sugar and warm milk.
“I think the biggest problem is that someone would look on line for the answer to a halachic shaila.”
meh
not a problem and not a halachic shailahywnjudy
“Well, speak of minhag, as a child we ate gebrok”
sounds like it isnt your family minhag. ITs nice that your family changed to accommodate a sibling in law, but that in no way obligates you.
Of course if said sibling will be joining with you , you should check with them (though odds are if they keep gebrokts they wouldn’t put any dip, certainly none containing water on matzah)If a son-in-law is absolutely machmir not to eat gebrochts, including from gebrochts keilim, how can the parents in law have their own daughter, grandchildren and son-in-law over for any part of Pesach other than the eighth day if the parent in laws eat gebrochts and their keilim/utensils/pottery are gebrochts?
ujm
Is that question geared to me?
If you are asking me, the simplest way is for the parents not to eat Gebrokts , as many do, and it sounds like ywnjudy’s family did.
The other possibility is to be violate the minhag for the sake of Sholom bayis, her kibbud av, though he might need hatarsa nedarim (ask your LOr) though seems rather obnoxious on the family’s part which understandably might make him not want to go.I will tell you being familiar with german the meaning and origin of gebrochs is. We break matzas and pour on it hot coffee. Matzah Meal used for making knaidlach is brocken matzahs. Some like to break matzahs into soup.
See more about gebroks discussed before at https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/eating-gebroks-on-pesach.
The way it should be spelled gebrochts meaning something broken in german.
BTW Avocado on Matzoh … מי פירות אין מחמיצין…
It was always spelled in Yiddish:
גיבראקט
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BTW Avocado on Matzoh … מי פירות אין מחמיצין…
I would spell it as געבראקטס.
Why is the mixup with bgan margarine not all over the news? On their website they are reporting that margarine marked kosher lepesach on the box but not on the inside label is in fact not kosher lepesach. If this where an allergy would this information not be posted on all the drum websites? Why do we care more about allergies than kashrus??
Shooeey,
The notice was posted on multiple “drum” websites. ( I agree with your hesitation to call any website frum).
In addition I received emails about this from a number of shuls and it was announced in shul.
This was communicated openly and widely.
Modern gebroks chumros is a minhag, not halacha. The answer depends entirely on what your mother or community does.
Is a deli matzah sandwich problematic? What about a cheese melt? Do you put washed lettuce leaves in your Korech? Fruit juices? Is it OK if it’s within 18 minutes? Every question has its own answer and none of these answers are found in halacha, nor should they be.
If a new non-gebrocht family member, usually a son-in-law, comes to his gebrocht in-laws for Pesach, the proper act is to be mattir neder and eat with them. Gebrochts did not exist before the late 18th century. It is not found in shas, rishonim and early acharonim. The slow creep of non-gebrochts from a minhag to the border of a declaration of spiritual superiority is shameful. It is chutzpah, arrogant and yuhara for the son-in-law to demand non-halachic changes from his new family in order to satisfy his own minhagim. Mi samo? In your own house, he can eat how he wants. As a guest, he should show respect.
The Rosh Yeshiva of Mir recently told his talmidim to stay in Eretz Yisrael for Pesach and to be mattir nedarim on their personal home minhagim. So should the young tachshit.If someone not eating gebrochts is invited to the seder by someone eating gebrochts, the not eating can follow the eating, the host. as it is only a chumra but not kitniyos and I don’t think he has to be matir neder for one time. When in Rome, do like the Romans do.
You cannot drop the Minhagim of your father. If the in-laws cannot accommodate non-gebrochts, the simplest solution is for the son-in-law and his family to not eat by the in-laws for the first seven days of Pesach. They can come on Achron Shel Pesach, when gebrochts can be eaten.
If he invites himself, the rule might change.
“When in Rome, do like the Romans do.”
Besides the fact that i am fairly certain you are wrong about your response, do you have any idea what this phrase means? How could you use it in a context of Torah observance when it’s source was exactly opposite?
I’m not sure what the source for that phrase is, and how it’s being (mis)applied, but the halacha Reb Eliezer made up is wrong (unless someone has a specific minhag otherwise).
Ok, I looked it up, the source seems to be based in some christian observance, so to apply it to the idea of minhag hamakom is indeed offensive, although I’ll give R’ Eliezer a pass for not knowing the source.
I won’t give him a pass for making up halachos though, in this case based on his lack of respect for a genuine minhag which he happens to not share.
Yesh chochma bagoyim, sometimes we can apply it. Men darf wissen wie the chamor schteht ein. Sometimes a donkey and sometimes wine. I asked my LOR and by gebrochts he agreed with me to follow the host.
If you don’t want to follow the host, don’t go there. I was invited and they served roast beef at the seder, so I ate with them even though my minhag is not to have it.
Yesh chochma bagoyim, sometimes we can apply it.
You missed the point
I asked my LOR and by gebrochts he agreed with me to follow the host.
If your minhag is to not be makpid, that makes sense. But don’t paint with a broad brush.
If you don’t want to follow the host, don’t go there.
Or just don’t eat the knaidlach
DY, don’t be a daas yachid, show me otherwise. The Chavas Yair 126, says that the children don’t have to follow the chumras, chasidus, of the father.
DY, don’t be a daas yachid, show me otherwise.
אגרות משה או”ח ח”ג ס”ד
The Chavas Yair 126
ולכן נראה לי שאין בכח בני הקהילה אפילו יסכימו כלם להתיר נדרם והנהגתם להקל במה שנהגו להחמיר הואיל שחל גם על דורות הבאים ועל רחוקים הבאים לדור וזה מוכחR Moshe bring the Chavas Yair
When gebrokts is a family minhag, it becomes obligatory.
I did not see the shaila in א’מ above of being invited and standing out by showing that he is better than the host. We show respect to the host. I did not paint with a broad brush as I excluded kitniyos being an issur from the geonim and not a recent chumra. Kitniyos is also assur on the last day of pesach whereas gebrochts is mutar. The shaila is whether to follow the host or stick by your own chumros which I did not see resolved. Obviously, we don’t break minhagim for no reason.
DY, how can you by the host when you have separate kelim for the last day of pesach and he cooks everything in the same kelim?
I did not see the shaila in א’מ above of being invited and standing out
Neither did the חות יאיר who you misquoted
DY wrote
“R Moshe bring the Chavas YairWhen gebrokts is a family minhag, it becomes obligatory.”
This seems to me as a contradiction from what RMF wrote about CY milk there he said that if one never took on the “chumrah” – like it was put upon them from their family – then one can just start drinking Chala Companies.
Any thoughts?
You should not take the invitation in the first place because I, who eat gebrochts, know that everything like meat sauce can have matzah meal in it.
Reb Eliezer said
…kitniyos being an issur from the geonim…
I find that hard to believe, as the Bavli Jews and the communities around them eat kitnyot.
Do you have a source?Should be above, DY, how can you eat by the host, when …
DY, how can you eat by the host when you have separate kelim for the last day of pesach and he cooks everything in the same kelim?
Some people’s minhag allows.
This seems to me as a contradiction from what RMF wrote about CY milk there he said that if one never took on the “chumrah” – like it was put upon them from their family – then one can just start drinking Chala Companies.
Any thoughts?
CY isn’t based on old family minhag.Perhaps if a few generations keep CY in the US, it can become a minhag, interesting question. I don’t think so, though – it’s based on how to interpret Chazal’s gezeira so is based on halacha, whereas gebrokts is a chumra to be choshesh for an unlikely event of chometz which nobody holds is meikar hadin.
You should not take the invitation in the first place because I, who eat gebrochts, know that everything like meat sauce can have matzah meal in it.
You ask in advance what they serve which is gebrokts.
We eat knaidlach and a couple of kugels, and matza meal cake, but would be able to accommodate a guest who keeps the minhag to not eat gebrokts.
If the father follows the Rabbenu Taam’s shkiah, then the children must follow it as it has to do with an issur and not a chumra. At least kitniyos was assered by rishonim as mentioned by the Mordechai 588, and the RMA O’CH 553,1, whereas gebrochts, to my knowledge, became a custom in the 18th century as mentioned in the Sharei Teshuva O’CH 460 s’k 10. They say that potatoes were not included in kitniyos as the geonim did not have any. When the Chayei Adam wanted to asser potatoes, they said you are taking away the Chayei Adam.
I find that hard to believe, as the Bavli Jews and the communities around them eat kitnyot.
Do you have a source?The סמ”ק says it was an old minhag. (He lived in France during the period of the Rishonim.). It’s possible that it dates back to the times of the Geonim but not where the actual Geonim lived.
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