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It’s a pretty extreme chumra if you think about it. That said, I don’t know why the hotels cater to those who hold of it. Most Jews eat gebroktz.
By not serving gebrochts, anyone can eat at the hotel. By serving gebrochts, many people cannot. So it is a wise business decision. The number of people who will only go to a hotel serving gebrochts is minimal, as it isn’t a mandate for them to eat it; whereas it is a mandate for those that refrain.
Why they cater to those who eat it or don’t?
My parents do not eat gebrochts. What do you want me to do? Should I eat gebrouchts because it’s an extreme chumrah?
The number of people who will only go to a hotel serving gebrochts is minimal, as it isn’t a mandate for them to eat it; whereas it is a mandate for those that refrain.
That doesn’t make any sense.
It is a mandate for non-gebrochts people to not eat gebrochts. There is no mandate for gebrochts people that they must eat gebrochts.
There is no madate for me to PAY for your “Chumras”
If you insist on not eating it, the food costs more money , Why should I pay for it
Who are you to insist I eat it?
Besides, it does not cost more to skip the extra ingredient.
And if you still don’t like it, eat at home.
naysberg- the shaarei teshuva writes against the minhag of gebreoks since it stops simchas yom tov
Chacham, the Chofetz Chaim and Steipler didn’t eat gebrochts and did have simchas yom tov. So I am in good company.
Naysberg: You said that many gebrochts people give up gebrochts because they don’t have any obligation to eat it. I think we gebrochts people like our gebrochts too much to give it up on such spurious reasoning.
Oh seriously people. Let the non-gebrochters non-gebrocht in peace. (As long as they don’t try to make us join them… :P)
OOM: I was discussing why Pesach hotels are non-gebrochts. It makes great business sense. The non-gebrochts people definitely won’t come if the kitchen serves gebrochts. The gebrochts people will still generally come if the kitchen is non-gebrochts.
if someone doesnt eat Gebrachs
And they eat a Piece of Matza, their saliva get on the Matza and gets wet.
Or
If someone doesnt eats Gebrachs eats some matza and some matza crumbs remain in their mount (maybe stuck in teeth) they then take a drink of water.
The Matza in the mouth then gets wet…
It does make sense for the hotel. But that’s not what you said. You said, “The number of people who will only go to a hotel serving gebrochts is minimal,” which implies that the customers don’t really care if they get their gebrochts or not (because they apparently have no obligation to eat it.) Then again you say, “The gebrochts people will still generally come if the kitchen is non-gebrochts.” Maybe some don’t care, but the majority still do. Why do you care if they care anyway? They’ll just pick one that does gebrocht, and shalom al yisroel.
“crumbs remain in their mount”
Is that mount crumbsmore? sorry zahavasdad couldnt resist
or by mount did u mean a horse?
I eat gebrochts, but I totally get why the hotels do not serve them. If you have a guest who is a diabetic, if you make non-sweet, tasty low-carb food for the meal, everyone can safely eat and enjoy it. But if you make sweet-sauced foods, and other stuff that is sugary, the guest cannot partake. So yes, even though it might seem like catering to the diet of a minority of people, nevertheless you, the, knaidel-eater, can still eat ALL the food that is being prepared and served in the non-gebrochts hotel, whereas the reverse would not be true for the gebrochts-only consumer.
naysberg- I was not coming to hock against the minhag. All I was doing was giving a possible reoson that one who eats gebrekts should continue to do so. And btw according to Orchos Rabeinu chelek 2 the Steiplers family ate it while he himself was personally machmir. However, when he got older the steipler was mattir neder. I believe I once saw in maaseh ish that reb Shaul Barzam zt’l family did not eat keilim of gebrokts so when he married into the steiplers family he asked the chazon ish what to do. the chazon ish said to be mattir neder and not chage the way they do it by your shver.
I will enjoy my gebrochts this Pesach, thank you very much.
I don’t know why people cant get over the chumra of gebrokts,before anyone knocks the minhag at least learn the Sharei Tshuvuah 460.
Derech achilla there is no problem of gebrocks so no issues of matza in the mouth getting wet etc.
How can anyone who is machmir for gebrocks go to a hotel for pesach? Have you any idea of the kashrus problems that inevitably arise in practically every hotel, even with the best hechsher and mashgiach? I have heard stories from mashgichim even for non pesach hotels that made me feel ill.
And where does this double chumra originate from to not eat from a keili that has had gebrocked food in? Ad kidei kach?
On a thread last week I told the story of the 1st Belzer Rebbe who did not eat gebrocks while his mother did. They ate from the same plate of soup with his mother eating the kneidlach and he leaving them for her!
The Gra said that not eating gebrochts takes away from Simchas Yom Tov. According to him, it would seem that it IS a mandate to eat gebrochts!
“Derech achilla there is no problem of gebrocks so no issues of matza in the mouth getting wet etc.”
But you will have wet matza crumbs in your mouth that could – and will- remain there for a while (unless you brush after eating)?
Zahavasdad,
You said “There is no madate for me to PAY for your “Chumras”
If you insist on not eating it, the food costs more money , Why should I pay for it”
Very simple, go to a different hotel. No one is making you go to a place that is gebrochts only. And it is somewhat amusing/ ironic that someone going to a hotel is crying about the alleged price increase because of gebrochts.
Then you ask a couple of earth shateringly simple questions. Are you really that devoid of halachic knowledge?
And why does it bother you if people keep a minhag of gebrochs, no one is making you do anything.
You want to eat gebrockts, go ahead. Perhaps your issue is that you have no respect for mesorah. You are certainly not smarter than any single person who keeps the minhag of gebrokts.
MDG: I told this story in another thread, but I once met someone who was so proud of the fact that he was so Makpid on Gebrochts that he would eat his Matzah with a plastic baggie surrounding it. And no, he wasn’t Yotzei Mitzvas Matzah.
People shouldn’t have any inherent problem with Gebrochts or not. It’s not my fault if someone else wants to not eat normal, Muttar food on Pesach. I think people are so against it because many people have a perception that those who don’t eat Gebrochts are “better” or “frummer” than those who do. I know of a respected Rabbi who was once abandoned by a prospective Ba’al T’shuvah because this guy thought the Rabbi was “liberal” and “modern” because he ate Gebrochts. I don’t think there’s any issue and no real reason to make a huge deal out of this. But some people decided to make this issue of eating Gebrochts or not more important than it is, and this has led to problems.
“You want to eat gebrockts, go ahead. Perhaps your issue is that you have no respect for mesorah. You are certainly not smarter than any single person who keeps the minhag of gebrokts”
Interesting thing, that sentence goes both ways. Neither is the non-brokter any smarter (or frummer) than any single person who keeps the minhag of EATING gebrokts. I say live and let live. We are all the same frum yidden whether we brock or not.
Sam2: He ate the plastic bag?!
Oomis,
Zahavasdad has an issue with people keeping a minhag that they have from their father. Because he thinks he is smarter than those people’s fathers who accepted the minhag. So there are two issues here, people who follow the me spray have what to rely on Nd are. Or saying that they know better, they are following established
Minhag. The same is true for those who don’t have the minhag. But zdad is bothered by someone keeping their own minhag. And he has never posted anything here that indicates any level of genius at all. Look at his two earlier posts, they were beyond simple. As in the third son.
OOM: That’s what he claimed. This guy likes making up Chumros that he could never actually keep, so maybe (hopefully) he didn’t. One who eats the Matzah inside a plastic bag isn’t Yotzei.
Nisht: That personal attack was uncalled for.
To those mentioning Mesorah for keeping Gebrochts: You do realize that at some point, someone whose father ate Gebrochts suddenly started not eating Gebrochts, right?
I eat gebrochts, but I totally get why the hotels do not serve them. If you have a guest who is a diabetic, if you make non-sweet, tasty low-carb food for the meal, everyone can safely eat and enjoy it. But if you make sweet-sauced foods, and other stuff that is sugary, the guest cannot partake. So yes, even though it might seem like catering to the diet of a minority of people, nevertheless you, the, knaidel-eater, can still eat ALL the food that is being prepared and served in the non-gebrochts hotel, whereas the reverse would not be true for the gebrochts-only consumer.
If the hotels only served diabetic foods, I’d accept your analogy.
One keeps the minhagim of his father, or if a woman, the minhagim of her husband. A man may elect to change certain minhagim of his father, when he gets married, but if he chooses not to do so at that time, then he may not change the minhag later on. That does not preclude him from following a more machmir minhag, i.e., eating only non-gebrokts because he went to a hotel for Pesach, and that is what they serve. However, that is not really changing his innate minhag.
Sam2
why isn’t he yotza if he eats with the bag?
Rabbosai:
I am extremely makpid one way when it comes to gebrochts (won’t tell you which way, but I’m sure you can guess by my posts). My best friend does the opposite. Who cares?
We are a Holy Nation! Baruch Hashem this should be our biggest machlokes!
Let’s consider how many Yidden out there don’t know of Pesach or Matzoh at all. Let’s consider the Jews who are the product of Jewish moms and non-Jewish dads who are being raised as non-Jews (like my cousins). They will be in Church on Sunday for Easter (R”L).
On my other side, my relatives in Israel live on a HaShomer HaTzair Kibbutz. One said to me: “B’Pesach yesh lanu matzah v’gam lechem b’shulchan. Zeh cherut!”
Gebrochters: enjoy your dipping. Non-gebrochters: enjoy not dipping. May this Nisan bring us Geulah and let Eliyahu haNavi tell us which way is right.
Chag Kasher v’Samayach!
Yitzchokm: It’s a Mefurash Gemara. Kar’cha B’siv Lo Yatza (somewhere around Pesachim 109 or 115).
sam,
im not sure you understood your friend. He doesn’t eat out of the bag that way.
While on the table, the matza is in a matza tash (bag).
btw,
I do the same.
I agree with yitzchokm. Sam misunderstood his friend. His friend made sure his matzah didn’t touch the table, so he put something around it on the table. Like yitzcokm and Sam’s friend, so do I.
For those of you that are going crazy over this chumra, there is a reason for it. Matzos used to be around two or three inches thick, and mixed purely by hand- no tools. It would be very hard to have it perfectly mixed with every bit of flour getting wet. Often, there were bits of flour mixed into the matza. If that flour were to get wet, that would be chametz. True, now we no longer have this problem, but on pesach it is important to do whatever your parents did.
Yitzchokm and Shein: I know of that Minhag. Many people do it. It’s a ridiculous enough Chumra in its own right. No, that is not what he said. He was proud that he thought one year to eat the Matzah while still in the bag so it didn’t become Gebrochts. in his mouth.
sam2 -does not really sound so shayich. But I saw in halichos shlomo (see tefilah 4 haarah 95 and hilchos pesach by gebroktz) Reb shlomo zalman is mechalek between a minhag, which gets passed down from generation to generation and a personal chumrah, which does not require your children to follow.
His example of a chumra that a son does not need to keep is if one is makpid to not carry in any eruv (not just the ones that rely on rediculous kulos), which is in theory kneged halacha .
Chacham: I know someone who never trusted any Eruv. He was once visiting Eretz Yisrael and was informed halfway through Shabbos that the community he was staying in has walls around it and is gated shut on Shabbos. He was so happy that he immediately grabbed a Sefer and ran with it to the Beis Medrash, because it was the first time he had had the opportunity to fulfill the Mitzvah D’Rabannan of Eruvei Chatzeiros.
I keep asking this qusstion and no one will answer it:
” Chacham sam2 -does not really sound so shayich. But I saw in halichos shlomo (see tefilah 4 haarah 95 and hilchos pesach by gebroktz) Reb shlomo zalman is mechalek between a minhag, which gets passed down from generation to generation “
Then how did the first generation of Chassidim go against Daas Torah and abandon centuries of minhagim and nusach as practiced by there fathers and forefathers?
Obama apparently eats gebrokts
Sam2 – What mitzvah do you get when carrying in a place where its mutar ?
On a thread last week I told the story of the 1st Belzer Rebbe who did not eat gebrocks while his mother did. They ate from the same plate of soup with his mother eating the kneidlach and he leaving them for her!
Did The Belzer rebbe’s mother follow his fathers custom?
lesschumras: They didn’t care.
lesschumras: They had a halachic basis. That doesn’t mean every situation has a halachic basis, even if they claim to.
Logician: Nothing. The point wasn’t that he carried, the point was showing that he actually believed that you could.
shein, and that halachic basis was…… They didn’t care.
My point being is that people constantly say you can’t change a minhag because of mesorah , your father did it this way etc when in fact, as the Chassidim did, if you are going to change anyway, you’ll find a basis ir it
At some point in time, whether it be gabrochts or any minhag, someone in the past changed their minhag to adopt their current one. They aren’t set in stone, or at least shouldn’t be
My wife and I dnt eat Henri H’s but my inlaws do… I hate going there for pesach…. Help!!!!
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