Why Are Gedolei Yisroel Silent Or Complicit In The Peleg Demonstrations?

Home Forums Eretz Yisroel Why Are Gedolei Yisroel Silent Or Complicit In The Peleg Demonstrations?

Viewing 21 posts - 1 through 21 (of 21 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #1415163

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    YWN posted an excellent letter today from an anonymous source decrying the continuing silence and implied complicity of gadolei yisroel with respect to the ongoing terrorist actions undertaken by followers of a specific Rav (who shall not be named) whose actions have resulted in injuries, millions of NIS in property damage and untold misery to hundreds of thousands of innocent Israelis who want nothing more than to get up in the morning, get their kids to school, get to work and home without having to deal with these useless yungerleit for whom throwing rocks and starting fires is considerably more exciting then shteiging in the yeshivos. The author of today’s article tries to provide some rationalization for this seeming complicity and refusal to condemn the actions of this Rav and his followers by claiming they are “uninformed” or being “misled” about the real nature and impact of the Peleg demonstrations. I find it implausible but wonder whether others truly accept this rationale for the continuing radio silence from those gadolim who arguably could stop or mitigate this ongoing chilul hashem (or at least channel the demonstration into some form of non-disruptive civil disobedience).

    #1415192

    Avram in MD
    Participant

    Wow, I thought you were going to manage to write that entire post in one sentence, but a period finally appeared about halfway through. Still, it’s gotta be a near-CR record.

    #1415196

    Joseph
    Participant

    If the gedolei yisroel are “complicit” in the protests, that is proof that the protests are righteous and that everyone who hasn’t yet joined the protesters should do so expeditiously.

    #1415207

    5ish
    Participant

    People who just want to go about their business while the world burns around them and the government is trying to convert them to Minus, rachmana letzlan, are complicit Misyavnim.

    #1415208

    Avi K
    Participant

    Actually Yated has been condemning them. The fact of the matter is that these protests are part of a rebellion against Rav Steinman as leader of the Lithuanian Haredim. Other talmidei chachamim are probably scared to come out publicly against them. The Atra Kadisha thugs even stoned Rav Eliashiv when he reached an agreement on moving graves. However, if the boycott of the Badatz gains steam they will push to crush these thugs. Already they Badatz issued a statement disassociating itself from the Peleg.

    #1415209

    Sadigurarebbe
    Participant

    Maybe they approve of the message but not the tactics and dont want to take away from the efforts.

    #1415264

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    To Avram….your musar is well taken….I hate half page long footnotes w/o punctuation.

    #1415265

    Joseph
    Participant

    We’ve been hearing about “boycotting the Badatz” for over 40 years already.

    #1415325

    Gustaveznv
    Member

    Joseph just slandered The Gedolei Hador, Rav Shteinman, Rav Kanievsky, Rav Gershon Edelstein, Rav Dov landau – all of whom are way older than the DAAS YOCHID on the other side.

    What a sicko you are Joseph. Oh right, your Mesarev Ledin Rosh Yeshiva from Chaim Berlin also jumped on board, because two very nasty and bitter Roshei Yeshiva, who had the same Shadchan, who both had vicious nasty nasty divorces who both hate the Gedolim in Bnei Brak over their divorces shlepped him into this mess. What a farce.

    Hell isn’t hot enough for the Reshoyim surrounding Rav Shmuel Auerbach for what they did this this massive Gadol. He is clueless as to what’s going on.

    Truth is. I need to admit….they actually accomplished….. they accomplished that Rav Shmuel Auerbach will never ever be universally accepted as the Gadol Hador. Thanks to the 10 Reshoyim arurim who surround him.

    #1415444

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    I did not mean for this thread to become an extension of what seems to be an ongoing exchange of insults and venom that seems to have become the norm over the past week or so beginning with the chabad threads. My question is simple and targeted. Do you think most of the other gadolim are simply clueless as to the disruption, property damange and public safety threats posed by the Peleg demonstrations because they aren’t allowed access to the TV and internet media, don’t leave the confines of their beis medrash and areotherwise insulated from reality by their gabboim or is it that they simply are fearful of offending the small cadre of the Rabbi Auerbach zealots and don’t want their own yeshivos and mosdos to be drawn into the conflict or they actually are supportive of this chaos but are willing to let Rabbi Auerbach take the heat.

    #1415587

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Rav Chaim has spoken out against the Peleg protests

    Hagaon HaRav Chaim Kanievsky On The Peleg: Like A Sheep Without A Shepherd

    #1415638

    Ash
    Participant

    @Godolhadorah I did not mean for this thread to become an extension of what seems to be an ongoing exchange of insults and venom

    Excuse me while I take a few minutes to draw breath again …

    You seem entirely oblivious to the utter hypocrisy you’ve just espoused.

    You have spend months using the most disgusting language about Peleg and its rabbonim and wished awful things would happen to them. You have been one of the primarily culprits of hysterical reaction, and now you dare to take the moral high ground here and ask for reduction in venom.

    Take a very long hard honest look in the mirror before commenting again.

    #1415645

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    ToAsh:
    I’ve looked in the mirror and see exactly what you correctly noted in your post. I clearly have held and continue to hold utter contempt for Peleg and its leadership. there is no possible ‘justification” the harm they have imposed on the tzibur. My point is simple and not meant to promote more insults against the other Rabbonim: The letter posted in the news section was the basis for my question: Why the silence??

    #1415660

    doer
    Participant

    שתיקה כהודאה

    #1415782

    Avi K
    Participant

    Doer, sometimes it means that the statement does not deserve an answer (see Baba Batra 62a Tosofot d”h umodeh).

    #1415989

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    שתיקה כהודאה = admission of guilt??

    Perhaps silence equals tacit agreement but at what cost? Silence can also reflect a strategy of keeping a low profile on controversial issues for fear of making yourself (and by implication your mosdos) the targets of the same violence and disruption. Finally, silence may reflect the absence of real-time awareness of ongoing events for reasons that seem hard to understand.

    #1416014

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Besides the fact that Rav Chaim Kanivesky DID speak out against the Protests, Rav Aharon Leib is sick and not in a position right now to do anything (May Hashem give him a full refuah Shelemah)

    #1416024

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Rav Kanivesky, shlita, issued a statement about “misguided” yeshiva yungerleit (something along the lines of “sheep without a shepherd”) over a month ago, well before the demonstrations have been ramped out by Peleg and the worse disruptions have occurred. There are 8-10 other highly respected Litivish rabbonim who are cited here frequently as “gasolim” but a brief search doesn’t turn up any recent statements. Again, the silence for some reason is deafening.

    #1416034

    Todros Gimpel
    Participant

    Who would be influenced by mainstream Rabbonim speaking out against the protests?
    For those in the Peleg themselves, they obviously won’t listen to Rabbonim from the “Misyavnim” camp.
    For those in the mainstream, they are firmly against the protests (and protesters) anyway.
    So it theoretically would only influence those “on the fence”.
    The thing is, there are very few who aren’t firmly on one side or the other. (That is the nature of the land, you are either black or white. The question always is, which is black and which is white…)

    On the other hand speaking out publically against them has many problems.

    1. A public dispute between Gedolim is a huge Chilul Hashem; even larger than the protests themselves. There is nothing more important than minimizing Chilul Hashem.
      Disruptive protests in Israel are pretty common. The invalids protests are sometimes more disruptive than the Peleg ones – they just have understandably way more sympathy for their cause.
    2. Harav Shmuel Auerbach Shlit’a is a tremendous Talmid Chochom and Yarei Shamayim. There is no real dispute about that. Coming out publicly directly against him can therefore only be done for a desperate need, and even then, with a tremendous amount of thought and subtlety; taking care to minimize as much as possible the Bizayaon of a Talmid Chochom.
    3. Coming out publically against the protests, in a way acknowledges that there is another side that is large enough to require acknowledgement, and that there is really an internal Machlokes within the Torah world. The Rabbonim in Eretz Yisroel have always tried to avoid this.
    #1416050

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    GH

    You do not understand how Gedolim Speak. They do not speak directly, they speak indirectly and their followers understand the meaning

    #1416065

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Thank you Todros. Very informative and logical analysis of my question. I’m not sure I fully agree as to whether “going along” with Auerbach’s shita simply in a desire to avoid machlokes among gedolim is sufficient rationale to remain silent if you truly believe what is happening almost daily in EY is itself a big chilul hashem and increasing the polarization among frum and frei yidden. Again, very thoughtful response and much appreciated.

Viewing 21 posts - 1 through 21 (of 21 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.


Trending