gedolim pictures

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  • #617148

    square root of 2
    Participant

    Is there an inyan to having/seeing pictures of gedolim?

    #1134794

    Joseph
    Participant

    Many gedolim refused permission to photograph them because they hold pictures are a form of idolatry.

    #1134796

    by seeing & looking at gedolim pictures you get reminded of their amazing middos & high levels of torah etc… & it helps give you a reputation & desire to one day become a tzaddik like them.

    start working on yourself now & one day you may become a big gadol Hador

    #1134797

    zogt_besser
    Participant

    from another ywn thread on this topic (I can’t vouch for the story myself): “R’ Moshe Feinstein used to tell people not to stop kids from taking pictures of gedolim. He said, “Better they should have my picture on the wall instead of a baseball player!”

    #1134798

    Joseph
    Participant

    The Chofetz Chaim and the Satmar Rebbe tried to prevent their pictures from being taken. The Chofetz Chaim you can see in action in the recently discovered video where his son moves to block the view of the videographer.

    #1134799

    zogt_besser
    Participant

    just to be clear, the discomfort with pictures is mainly al pi kabbalah, not halacha. we have plenty of pictures and videos of gedolim taken all the time with their reshus (for example, all the agudah conventions).

    #1134800

    Sam2
    Participant

    Joseph: Not because of Avodah Zarah. It’s a Kabbalistic issue.

    #1134801

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Rav Shlomo Zalman used to allow photographs all the time and even posed for them or allowed a second if the first didnt come out good

    #1134802

    Joseph
    Participant

    Forget about kabbalah or Halacha or Avoda Zora or whatever else and think plain mentchlichkeit. Would you want a random stranger or acquaintance or neighbor running up to you and sticking a camera in your face and snapping your picture without your permission? How about hundreds of such instances? I sure wouldn’t and I’m sure there vast majority of people wouldn’t. Even if it is “legal”. Most people wouldn’t agree to it or even give permission if asked by random people.

    Who wants their picture hanging in random people’s houses or traded, shown off, sold or published in mass circulation newspapers of a million unfamiliar people? Not most normal people and not most Gedolim. Only an egomaniac would want their picture mass published. They don’t stop it? That’s only a raya that they are forgiving people who don’t need another losing fight they’ll have to forever battle.

    #1134803

    The little I know
    Participant

    Mashiach Agent must have a great fantasy life, or lives an unusually spiritual life. Gedolim pictures are not a bad thing. Certainly beats photos of sports and Hollywood celebrities. But let’s get real, and let’s address the average person. The pictures of gedolim are simply objects of interest, and are entertaining. They are rarely statements about Yiras Shomayim, and they do not result in people sharing with each other about the great midos and dveikus to emulate.

    The problem is that we have deteriorated to a fixation with photographs of virtually any event. The pages of YWN, as well as other sites and most print media, are full of galleries and albums of every event, every simcha, and person of “interest”. The oilem is obsessed with these, and constantly seek more. The picture magazines sell well, and testify to nothing except what color bekeshes are worn by the rebbes, who visited whom, and who danced together at a simcha. These publications serve as great babysitters for children, but provide the adults with little to anything beyond a moment of entertainment. That’s being honest. Again, unquestionably better than goyishe celebrities, but still nothing beyond entertainment.

    #1134804

    zogt_besser
    Participant

    Just like many people post pictures of their spouses and children on their fridges, since those people matter to them, so too they keep pictures of gedolim, since gedolim matter to them.

    #1134805

    Joseph
    Participant

    Some gedolim opposed photography due to Avoda Zora. Others opposed it for kabbalistic reasons.

    Even a godol who allowed himself to be photographed doesn’t show he felt it right or best. He may have wanted the guy to feel good or not embarrass him or help him make a parnassa. Doesn’t mean he felt it ideal. If an older family friend came over and patted him on the back and said, “well Shlomo Zalman, my friend, I see you grew up and made something good of yourself!”, I wouldn’t be shocked if he played and laughed along with him. Doesn’t make what that guy did right.

    #1134806

    zogt_besser
    Participant

    if a gadol felt it was avodah zorah, why would he ever let someone photograph him just to make the guy “feel good?” There is no justification for that halachically, especially gabei something as chamur as a”z. thus the only objection those gedolim had was al pi kabbalah, nirah li.

    #1134807

    Joseph
    Participant

    The ones who held it was A”Z most certainly did NOT permit it. If someone was caught trying to photograph the Satmar Rebbe he would lose his camera.

    #1134808

    zogt_besser
    Participant

    that surprises me, since there is a video on youtube with many video clips/photographs of the Satmar Rebbe, shot at close range. And additionally, could you give me some mareh mekomos to modern poskim that state photography is a form of avodah zorah?

    #1134809

    Joseph
    Participant

    There are not, relativity speaking, a lot of videos and photographs of him. He is fairly notable and we’ll known for being very strict against being photographed. There are even pictures of the Rebbe covering his face because he saw the photographer. What does exist was certainly not done with his consent or likely even knowledge. People who photographed him tended to have done so undercover.

    #1134810

    Little Froggie
    Participant

    The Little I know;

    It’s time for you to know a bit more.

    Every thing a person sees makes a roshem, a mark on his/her being, spiritually and physically. While I don’t have the “magazines” and booklets of gedolim etc. I do have some picures of Tzadikim who we revere. The Gemarah says of one tzaddik the reason he excelled more than his peers is because he countenanced Rabbeinu Hakadosh from the back. ???? ????? ????? ?? ????? is for real. Looking at a holy person with intent to absorb Kedusha indeed works, and is the very reason for that adage.

    It’s when people make a mocking of it, pay attention to externals or side effects rather than the ikkur, or when it brings to macklokes (i.e. which Tzaddik is greater etc) that brings the mitigates the effect.

    Just as we can readily understand how looking and gazing at “unclean” and base object drags a person the the bottom.. so to (and ???? ???? ?????) does gazing at holy people, holy object lift and elevate a person. Sometimes it will go unnoticed a while, in the long run it works. It’s ???, a natural force, same as the aforementioned one, only to a bigger degree.

    By all accounts, get a super sized picture of the Chofetz Chaim on your dining room wall. Stare at it every time you dine… you’ll end up more holy. You’ll do mitzvohs differently. You’ll be more careful from aveiros. You’ll speak lashon hara much less.. guaranteed!! (and that’s a campaign promise)

    #1134811

    golfer
    Participant

    LF,

    +1

    #1134812

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    How did the mods let through a post without the Kavod Rav Shlomo Zalman deserved

    #1134813

    Joseph
    Participant

    You have a comprehension problem zd, if you think that post diminished his kavod. Au contraire.

    #1134814

    Sam2
    Participant

    Joseph: I think that Gedolim understood the last line in Sotah. Why do you think they didn’t?

    I also don’t know why you are accusing Gedolim of not knowing a B’feirush Shulchan Aruch (YD 141:4). It’s not an Avodah Zarah issue.

    #1134815

    The little I know
    Participant

    LF:

    I have nothing against pictures. I have them. Not too handy with the camera, but I’ve taken some, too. My problem is that the situation got completely out of hand, and that we have sunk to where photos are the substitute for emulation, role models, and true spiritual growth. Washing hands is a requirement, and this mitzvah has tremendous merit. When someone spends an inordinate amount of time in hand washing, we may be dealing with an OCD issue. There are portraits in my home of several tzaddikim. But there is no preoccupation with them, as is found all too often in today’s world. That’s why the picture magazines sell (with a minimum of advertising). I will challenge that unless one is specifically seeking a message from each time they gaze at a photo, the impact will not be meaningful. And I do agree that pictures of tzaddikim are far better than the nonsense alternatives. And I do thank you for your interior decorating suggestion.

    #1134816

    Little Froggie
    Participant

    I’m with you completely on that. I agree with you totally.

    #1134817

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    As a resident idolater (read: photographer) in this forum, let me simply say this. No Rav that I have ever encountered has ever said to me “Wolf, you know there may be some issues with your photography…”

    I don’t normally photograph people, but on the occasions when I have photographed Rabbonim, not one ever said to me “Please don’t take my picture, as there may be an issue of Avoda Zara (or Kaballah, or whatnot).” On the contrary, they smiled and posed and were even willing to wait for a second shot if I requested.

    That being said, I’ll follow my Rabbanim, thank you.

    The Wolf

    #1134818

    YW Moderator-42
    Moderator

    Taking a picture of the moon is probably a bigger problem of Avoda Zara.

    #1134819

    Sam2
    Participant

    42: Don’t be confused by Joseph’s Amaratzus. It’s not Avodah Zarah. It’s a separate Issur D’Oraisa of Lo Sa’asun Iti (assuming that you hold a picture falls under that category; there is room to argue that a photograph is Muttar while a painting is Assur). But it’s not Avodah Zarah.

    #1134820

    B1g B0y
    Participant

    I know for a fact that the posek hador Harav Chaim Yisroel Halevi Belsky Zt”l had a picture of R’ Baruch Ber in his office in Camp Agudah

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