Geneivat Daat

Well…
If it’s the same people who return their air conditioner to Walmart at the end of the season,
If it’s the same people who pretend that their children are young enough to get the cheaper rate at attractions,
If it’s the same people who perpetrate any number of other types of geneivas da’as and/or geneiva,
Why are you surprised?

Re: ” who would a BY girl need to write a composition for? ”

She wouldn’t… and shouldn’t. But if you’re a guy , it’s good to have a girl’s name like “Miriam” in your hip pocket to post on YWN & Zelda’s Coffee Room when need arises… Shana Tova Joseph… A gitt kvitel , my friend.

There is unfortunately an incredible level of cheating and plagiarism in the educational system as evidenced by the recent prosecution and guilty pleas of dozens of parents who in some cases paid hundreds of thousand of dollars to “consultants” to get their kids into college. Anyone in NYC knows the stories about bribes paid to get their babies into prestigious pre-school programs. You can go online and google the terms “term papers”, “compositions” “essays” etc. and you will find multiple offers to write them for you for a modest “fee”. Parents “help” their kids with essays on college applications or purchase a pre-drafted essay online.

The good news is that schools are now using sophisticated software to detect such cheating by comparing it to tens of millions of other documents already online or flagging writing patterns that seem different form other samples of the individual’s writings.

Ky – i can’t believe a frum yid could say that. Really? Is that the value system of the community you live in? Is that the sheker you are raising your children with? What a pity. What a busha.

Syag
That’s not really a response to what I said, but I’ll ask you this
When the school gives the students an assignment to be done in a language they neither speak nor understand, what do they really think is going on behind the scenes??
Or is your opinion that the teachers and principals of our children’s schools are so stupid that they never realized what I am saying?
Again
When children too young to type are submitting typewritten assignments (sometimes mandated by the school) what do the teachers who are giving these children high marks for those assignments think took place.
Don’t shoot the messenger.
I try to teach my children what is really important and correct.

ky – you sound like a 10 year old trying to justify shoplifting. I’m sorry if your community lives by such standards to the point that you can’t even hear your own words. and your next post is even worse:
Here it’s arbitrary. If a school /teacher decides they want you to submit an essay, and they give it in a way that easily allows cheating, and they know it’s happening, and they accept it, then it’s not cheating!!

that one is so wrong that even a 10 year old wouldn’t fall for it. in fact i can hardly believe an adult can think that way. Rationalizing sheker is probably worse than sheker itself. darn shame.

CY, returning an A/C isn’t stealing. It’s store policy.

Neither
Why would you think that

1 Purchasing an item with the intent of using and deriving value from it and then returning it is mamash ganavah since the value or the returned item for the storekeeper has been substantially reduced but then again, you will say that is the store’s tough luck since their return policy didn’t explicitly prohibit such returns. Some expect yidden to act morally but I suspect your were a big fan of Bernie Madoff and the others who believe it is an obligation of yidden to push the boundaries of unethical behavior.

G h
Walmart dumps returned merchandise regardless of condition.
Once you open the box, and sometimes even if you didn’t,
The item never makes it back onto the shelf. It’s donated or more often thrown out.
So it’s hard to hear an issue based on loss of value to Walmart.
There may be other reasons why it’s forbidden but your going down the wrong path

Avi
The value is lost the moment you open the box and perhaps even the moment you pay for the item.
(yes I know of a specific instance where someone realized after paying that they bought the wrong model, they went straight to return it. The clerk started to open the box. The person said “don’t open it. I just bought it a minute ago here’s my receipt. They said we need to check. They opened it took it all out then threw it into the returns with all the other used / unused /broken items)
So you take nothing from them by using the item. It’s the same to them if you return it sealed as if you return it used

??

“Walmart dumps returned merchandise regardless of condition.
Once you open the box, and sometimes even if you didn’t,”

I’m fairly certain that isn’t true.

That’s usually the case with food products returned at chain stores; they’ll dump the food even if it was unopened. Opened non-food items will generally be monetized (i.e. selling it in bulk) for whatever reduced value the return has.

Amil you ask a good question. I don’t have a good answer. But that is the reality.
Most girls high schools in Brooklyn teach at least some (and some all) classes exclusively in Hebrew.
Most ninth grade girls do not speak Hebrew.
Yet the tradition continues.
Why?
I do not know. Go ask your dad. (Dr Seuss for the purists here)

AvI
You obviously never send a daughter to a Brooklyn high school
.
Telling me the teachers are not in charge is passing the buck
And I never said anything to indicate I thought they are אחראי
For creating the current system
But they Are aware of it.
As I wrote in talking about English speakers being asked to do work in Hebrew.
Not sure where your comment about getting Along in their host country

As to Walmart
I said there may be plenty of good reasons you are not allowed to do it (my rav told me he holds it’s straight genaivah ) just saying that the argument that by returning it used after a summer downgrades it’s value and therefore you are stealing from Walmart, is factually incorrect.
It may be so that IF ultimately it is given to someone that entity receives less value, but they did not own it at the time you took it so you owe them nothing and Walmart, contrary to the opinions expressed here, does not put most of the returned items back on the shelf

Well KY it sounds like a rip off pure and simple. I’m a product of a very healthy and well regarded public school system and frankly I wouldn’t pay a dime for the type of education you are exampling no less $10K+ per year.

Avi k
They are not studying Hebrew
They are being taught other subjects in Hebrew language

Avi, sorry I totally lost you there
I know Hebrew
I know English
I know what it means to buy a field for פירות
I never heard that word
And by the way
If that were the only way to translate it, and nobody knows that word, it doesn’t help to say it in a different language That they don’t know. If they speak English and that’s the English for פירות and they don’t know that word, to keep calling it פירות does not make it any more understandable.

Regardless.
You are way off topic.
You asked what can be a rational for writing an essay for someone else
I am telling you that since it’s clear that it’s rampant and the school obviously doesn’t care , because they don’t even try to stop it, and the only reason to do it in the first place is because those same people who accept these obviously cheated essays asked for them, so that is tacit approval that you can do it. So what is wrong??

Dear Kluger,
Walmart management would have wanted the clerk to put it back on the shelf. Laziness/lack of intelligence is why they threw it out. But either way, your thinking is completely irrational. If someone would steal the a/c that would be stealing. If someone pays for it and keeps it, the store has money. When the item is returned the store does not have the money, the customer does. That money was rightfully earned by the store. The customer reclaiming it without deserving it, is theft. That is not based on policy, it is common law. I have not found anything resembling your rational in Descartes, Spinoza, Leibniz, or Kant. The onus of reason is on you to show your ‘rationality’.