Gerim wearing a blackhat (bend down)

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  • #610677

    abc12345
    Participant

    My rov has wanted me to get one for a few months and I didn’t want to get one b/c I didn’t feel ready.

    Now I feel like I want to start wearing one for davening. I ask opinions from people in my community and most (99%) say I should wear one. However a couple that I ask don’t feel I should.

    I would like to hear some opinions.

    #975596

    rebdoniel
    Member

    If you’re part of a black hat community, wear one.

    #975597

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Do whatever you want. Stop crowdsourcing personal decisions.

    #975598

    akuperma
    Participant

    For the most part, one should dress in a way that resembles everyone else unless one is making a statement by dressing differently than everyone else. If you don’t want your clothing to indicate an ideological position, dress in a way that fits in. This applies in general, not just shul.

    TO bring down a non-religious example, a man should normally wear pants unless he is a Scot making a political statement by wearing a kilt, or an Arab wearing an ankle length gown in a place wear everyone else dresses “western”. If you are in a shul in which most people wear black fedoras, wearing no hat other than a kippah, or on the other hand wearing a homburg or a streimel, communicates an “agenda”. That’s good if that’s what you intent, but not if your intention is just be normal and not make a statement.

    #975599

    truthsharer
    Member

    If you don’t want to, then don’t.

    If you want to, then do.

    #975600

    DaMoshe
    Participant

    Halachically, there is no requirement to wear a black hat while davening. The Mishna Berurah says a person should dress respectfully, as per the standard of the times. He gives an example of a hat for his times. However, nowadays, where wearing a hat indoors is sometimes considered disrespectful (such as in a courtroom, during singing of the national anthem, etc), it definitely is not required for davening.

    The only reason to wear one now is to show that you identify yourself as belonging to a certain group. If you feel like yo’re part of that group, wear the hat. Otherwise, don’t. But don’t make the mistake of thinking that it’s required.

    #975601

    Sam2
    Participant

    DaMoshe: Slightly disagree. If your community defines “respectful” as wearing a black hat, then one should wear a black hat during Davening.

    #975602

    heretohelp
    Member

    You know what they say about people who wear black hats, don’t you?

    #975603

    DaMoshe
    Participant

    heretohelp: Lots of things. There are entire blogs dedicated to it!

    #975604

    golfer
    Participant

    heretohelp,

    no, actually

    #975605

    charliehall
    Participant

    “The Mishna Berurah says a person should dress respectfully”

    The author of the Mishna Berurah did NOT wear a black hat.

    #975606

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    The author of the Mishna Berurah did NOT wear a black hat.

    Are you basing that on the one picture that exists, in which he is not wearing a fedora?

    #975607

    charliehall
    Participant

    “Are you basing that on the one picture that exists, in which he is not wearing a fedora?”

    I’m basing it on the testimony of a Rosh Yeshiva who learned at the Chofetz Chaim’s yeshiva in Poland as a young man while the Chofetz Chaim was still alive.

    #975608

    heretohelp
    Member

    Golfer wrote:”heretohelp,

    no, actually”

    Me neither.

    #975609

    WIY
    Member

    Charliehall

    He wore a hat. Maybe not a Fedora but a hat that was commonly worn at that time. I’m a assuming it was black. Maybe your source knows better. What color was it? By the way nothing wrong with wearing a blue hat either. Nothing wrong with wearing a golf hat as long as it looks nice and is respectable. For example I don’t think davening in a baseball cap is respectable.

    #975610

    WIY
    Member

    Abc12345

    Its very important for a get to try and blend as much as possible and not look weird or stand out. Your Rabbi has your best interests in mind. Many people in the street have no clue what they are talking about one way or the other so be careful who’s advice you take. I know geirim who became Chassidish and thus dress Chassidish. I know geirim who are Yeshivish or not Chassidish and wear a hat and jacket. Either way the main point is to blend and become part of the Klal and part of the kehilla (congregation and synagogue) where you daven regularly. And if you don’t have a shul where you daven regularly go find one.

    #975611

    nishtdayngesheft
    Participant

    “The author of the Mishna Berurah did NOT wear a black hat.”

    Even if this is true, which I doubt, it has nothing to with the statement DaMoshe wrote.

    I, for the life of me, cannot understand why you so often post comments that are tangential and meaningless.

    #975612

    Redleg
    Participant

    I’ve seen many pictures of rabbeim amd yeshiva leute (pronounce “light”) in Lite wearing grey hats (they are B&W photos so the hats could be other colors but they look grey in the photos) anyway, they’re not black. Every photo of my Elteren in Europe shows them wearing Litvishe yarmulkes, no hats of any color.

    #975613

    crgo
    Participant

    Popa – I rarely comment but I found your post particularly offensive. A newcomer to any culture networks when making decisions as a way of helping him get a better handle on the nuances of the particular culture. Even if it were true, accusing someone of “outsourcing personal decisions” strikes me as a very condescending comment, but in this case it’s not even applicable. I would expect that some of the responses he got were helpful in helping him make sense of the issue in his mind.

    #975614

    Torah613Torah
    Participant

    crgo: Networking and crowdsourcing are rather different.

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