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I think it is a chillul Hashem to register a marriage in such a state. Like New York (which is similar to old York in that it allows pogroms).
See, the whole theory of marriage is that you ask society to recognize your formerly personal relationship. You are asking for societal recognition of the relationship; that society should agree that it is an important relationship and worthy of being treated accordingly.
But when states like New York (and old York) recognize your relationship, they do so in the same way that they recognize the terribly destructive relationships–saying that your relationship has similar ones to those (chas v’shalom). What a terrible chillul Hashem, and what a terrible thing to ask them for that recognition.
My grandson-in-law’s rosh yeshiva will not be mesader kiddushin without a marriage license, but ?????? that I would insist on not having one.
????? ??????? ????????
I think it is a chillul Hashem to register a marriage in such a state. Like New York (which is similar to old York in that it allows pogroms).
Unfortunately this is a growing trend, it would be very bad if traditional weddings are not registered as a result. It’s not only New York, you know.
But when states like New York (and old York) recognize your relationship, they do so in the same way that they recognize the terribly destructive relationships–saying that your relationship has similar ones to those (chas v’shalom). What a terrible chillul Hashem, and what a terrible thing to ask them for that recognition.
A Chillul Hashem to get married? I don’t see how.
Nobody is asking for that same recognition. Is it really similar?
And we don’t have to let them win.
It’s like cutting off your nose to spite your face. There must be a better way to protest this.
My grandson-in-law’s rosh yeshiva will not be mesader kiddushin without a marriage license, but ?????? that I would insist on not having one.
We have no way of controlling this. They really don’t care one way or the other, if we go ahead and obtain marriage licenses or not. So what will that accomplish?
????? ??????? ????????
Amen.
The state of New York doesn’t write kesubos for anybody. And I don’t know about you, but I didn’t get a marriage license for the societal recognition; I did it for legal reasons.
Incidentally, we had our secular marriage in New York and our religious wedding in Maryland. Both states have legalized gay marriage. But if it’s that important to you, you can have the secular marriage in a state that doesn’t recognize gay marriage (kind of like the opposite of what the gays do…)
1. Whether one is married according to our law, is solely a function of halacha (e.g. kesubah, kiddushin, hupah, etc.).
2. While in many (probably, most) states, including New York, a marriage license is not required (i.e. if you marry without one your halachic ceremony constitutes a valid civil marriage, meaning you need a civil divorce to marry anyone else, and you are committing fraud if you claim to be unmarried), it is very inconvenient not to have a marriage license. The alternative would be to bring in affidavits and other evidence for every transaction that requires proof of marriage. Note that this frequently is an issue only when a spouse dies (i.e. is the woman his widow and mother of his children, or a single mother whose children paternity is unknown who happened to be his live-in “best friend”).
I went to law school in New York. Look at the state statute. Unless a state says specifically that a valid license is a prerequisite for marriage, it isn’t (in New York, a clergyman is subject to a fine, but that’s it).
The license is a revenue measure, but it doesn’t affect the validity of the wedding. The people who think they are “officially” single because they had a wedding without a license could be charged with tax evasion if they minimized taxes by filing separately (though in practice, most frum people gain a tax benefit from marriage).
Like much of the marriage law, getting married without a license is a feature largely ignore since it create more problems than benefits. Another ignored feature is the option of marriage by filing a copy of the marriage contract with the clerk’s office.
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