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is it muttar in 2019 for madelach to learn gemara?
obviously controversial like many things in halakha; there are many gedolai olam to rely on who say it is muttar be’zemanainu.
Depends who you follow.
Yes.
Next topic please.
Was it muttar in 2018? If not , why not. If yes then why not also in 2019?
Why are you asking here? Don’t you have a rav or a rebbetzin to whom you go to with these questions? It depends on your community. Some communities allow, some communities discourage, some communities allow but don’t encourage. Are you asking for yourself or so you can be judgmental about someone else? If you are not interested in the assur/not assur argument but rather in the philosophical question, ask yourself the same question that has been bothering me for years: how is it possible that our heritage is off limits to 50 percent of the Jewish people? How is it possible that I can get advanced degrees in foreign cultures but not know my own?
I think our rav said on shabbos that it is an issur dioraisa according to the Gra, and anyways, chazal say if you teach a girl torah, it is like you taught her tiflus. Let them learn that gemara.
Shana, gilda,gliklich
You want to learn it? Go ahead. If it’s a problem,then
after 129 , upstairs, when they ask you why , you’ll know you’re nearing end of the the trial.. It’ll be the last question.Why are you asking here?
Do you have a better place to troll?
when they ask you why , youâll know youâre nearing end of the the trial.. Itâll be the last question.
That’s a good reason to do an aveirah…
The gemara in sota says if girls learn gemara it will bring them to arayos
Re: an aveirah
Says who? There’s a pshat that it’s like teaching her tiflus means specifically gemarah on the inyan of sota. There were those who held that teaching women in a Bais Yaakov was also ussur.The Gemora and Shulchan Aruch pasken it’s tiflus and prohibited to give classes teaching *any* Torah she’bal peh to girls.
There are many orthodox yeshivos that include some limited instruction in Talmud in their curriculum for girls so obviously some rabbonim do allow. I’m sure some will question whether these are truly “orthodox” schools and whether their rabbonim hold by the right hashkafah. I somehow don’t think a baas yisroel will confront a prosecutor in beis din shel maalah charged with learning talmud.
“……prohibited to give classes teaching *any* Torah sheâbal peh to girls…..”
Correct, yet there were women who learned it and taught it.. Bruria, mother of Rav Akiva Eiger, wife of Rabbe Akiva’s son who taught him Torah, women even pre -WWII , who knew and taught Shebaal peh.. My father mentioned them to me many times.. Sefer Chassidus explains that it means only not to teach them secrets of the Torah.
Also, it’s impossible for Bais Yakov girls however not, not to learn shebal peh as it apples to halachos.
Look, I’m not invested in this either way, my womenfolk don’t learn gemarah and I’m not involved in tobacco chewing fundraisers for girls’ seminaries. But there are rabbonim who NOWADAYS would permit it.However Joe, any Bais Yaakov Rebbetzin will out learn you (and me) in both Torah sheâbal peh and b’ksav on any day.
I somehow donât think a baas yisroel will confront a prosecutor in beis din shel maalah charged with learning talmud.
Whether or not it’s assur doesn’t depend on your own boich sevaros.
“any Bais Yaakov Rebbetzin will out learn you (and me) in both Torah sheâbal peh and bâksav on any day.”
She’ll really outlearn you on even the very first blatt Gemorah in Mesechtes Brochos?
You missed class that day?
“I somehow donât think a baas yisroel will confront a prosecutor in beis din shel maalah charged with learning talmud.”
She’ll be charged with tiflus.
Joseph,
âprohibited to give classes teaching *any* Torah sheâbal peh to girls.â
How do they learn any peirushim on chumash/nach?
All women learn Torah sheBaal Peh to some degree. First of all, there is Halachah which they must learn. There is also Rashi on Humash, which is primarily TsBP which most women learn (i heard Satmar doesn’t). AFAIK, the real question for most us is Mishnah and Gemara (possibly Sod also).
Rav Soloveichik not only allowed it he inaugurated the bet midrash in Stern College. he said that today when women study law not teaching them Gemara is teaching them tiflut.
Look its not assur, but you have to have the sensitivity to understand why a women shouldn’t learn gemara- thats not something you can explain. Besides this is where it all starts, we know what r’l comes next
Mr. Nu there are very valid grounds to strongly disagree with what you write, as the Rebbe did. He encouraged women’s learning in today’s day where they are fully educated in secular matters (which already teaches them tiflus) so they should have an equally strong Torah education, and can learn whatever they want. Well I guess they could always learn whatever they want – they can be TAUGHT whatever – even gemara. But again depends who you follow.
If the tiflus quote applies to any Torah shebaal peh then the only ones who hold of that today are the Satmar.
But obviously halacha and hashkafa come first which is why even most lubavitcher high schools don’t have a gemara class.
“Besides this is where it all starts, we know what râl comes next.”
Two of my daughters learned Gemara in midrasha, before they went into the IDF. I assume that’s what you mean by “what r’l what comes next.” Despite what you think, they came out OK, despite having learned Gemara and two years in the IDF, B”H.
AVI K: So I guess according to Joey and DY, Rav Soloveichik (along with many other chashuvah rabbonim of recent generations) were engaged in kefirah.
Nu.whats…so right….first germorah, then more esoteric meforshim on tanach, then the writings of gadolim and then who knows what. What a slipperly slope of lamdus. As chazal bring down, even a little bit of knowledge is such a dangerous weapon in the hands of a woman!! Keep them in the kitchen having children
GH, please don’t put words in my mouth.
Thank you.
DY: Sorry…didn’t mean to impute the illogical consequences of prohibitions that some hold by (and others don’t) to you personally. I can understand individuals making a personal decision for themselves or their children if that’s their own hashkafah, but certainly don’t believe it is a blanket assur for all.
As far as I am concerned, women should have an option to learn Gemara. The vast majority of women won’t care to begin with. Of the rest that do care, some are feminists and some have a real intellectual desire. When you take away the feeling of “this is only for men”, the femmeroids who have male envy will become less interested, as they will have nothing to prove. All that will be left are those who have the intellectual desire to learn (and just a few others). That is a miut of a miut, mostly of women who are lishmah. NP IMHO.
As far as I am concerned, women should have an option to learn Gemara.
if its halachically permissible. otherwise they shouldnt
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