Girls reputation vs boys reputation

I also though about this question a lot. I think it’s because when a boy goes off the derech or slips in his Yiddishkeit it takes a lot less nerve. When a girl stops being Tznius she had to actively go buy a short/tight skirt whereas a boy just accepted a cigarette from a friend or acted rowdy. Maybe because it’s in a boys nature to do non Toradik things? I don’t fully understand.

CL18,

Judgmental

Call me,

Because the guy is at an advantage

Reputation is only an issue regarding shidduchim and boys usually have the upper hand in shidduchim. I would be curious what the situation is in the Chassidish world.

Ujm- I disagree that it’s harder to be a good boy. I think that while it may be challenging to wake up for shul or learn it’s the same if not more difficult to dress Tznius, and act refined. Also, who knows how to sew these days?! (Besides our mothers) And in regards to Shidduchim, boys definitely have an upper-hand.

Men naturally desire forbidden things much more than women, especially in tayvoh issues. They are more proactive and assertive in realizing their desires as well So when a boy goes off, it’s obviously not alright, but the pull in that direction is very strong, and he has the proclivity not only to want it but to actively pursue it.

It takes more for a girl to engage in these things; she has to break down many layers of tznius and bashfulness among men that she grew up with. For this reason it’s harder to break the image of the “bad girl” than the “bad boy”, not that the averah itself is any less severe for either person involved

A man can have more than one wife, and the concept of pilegesh exists. Many religious men drink and enjoy cigars and are often involved in olam hazeh in other ways. Many religious men wake up late, don’t necessarily always go to shul, don’t necessarily learn. The line between on and off the derech can be blurry for men. Women are very forgiving and understanding. The line for on and off the derech for women is clear cut.

User, there’s a lot to unpack in those statements. Smoking, especially casually, is widespread in the yeshiva world, and was common among roshei yeshiva until recently. One of the ziknei rosh yeshivos still smokes. it has nothing to do with going off the derech as far as i can see. At worst, it is a poor life choice and a possible violation of venishnartem meod es nafshosaychem (though continuing to smoke if one was unaware ot the danger is allowed according to most); it will also limit one’s success in shidduchim.

Being involved in olam hazeh, as you put it, doesn’t mean one is off the derech either – if someone is involved in futile pursuits that have no redeeming spiritual value, then it is against the Torah, and according to some rishonim is an issur asei of veahavta es Hashem elokecha. I would agree that here there is a connection – everyone who goes off violates this precept, but not everyone who transgresses it is off the derech.

Going off could be described as engaging in consistent behavior that is contrary to the minimal norms of Torah observance according to one’s upbringing. Meaning if an MO kid is with girls, his aveirah is of course unacceptable, but one cannot term him “off the derech”, since to him, this “lifestyle” isn’t a contradiction to shmiras hamitzvos, whereas such behavior definitely would place a mainstream student who is aware of the severity of this action in that group.

I’m not convinced that the line is clear cut for women, actually, the more I think about it, I believe it’s the opposite Women have a multitude of dress choices, none of which make a statement necessarily about their frumkeit, whereas a man who wears even a grey suit has made a statement about where he sees himself, certainly if he’s wearing colored shirts, tan, green suits etc.

Women are also encouraged to engage in hobbies and have interests. Their viewpoints are also more “open minded” and they are not held accountable for deviant hashkofos, because people don’t notice them..men are taught by rebbeim not to be medayak and address hashkofic problems in what women say on dates, because “they don’t learn gemara, so how can you expect them to have daas torah?”. Of course there is a line drawn regarding things like feminism, or castigation of rabbinic authority.

Avira DeArah wrote my thoughts more eloquently than I was able to but that’s what I was trying to express.

I don’t think it’s clear cut either way. Most (not all) of the things that would classify someone as OTD are more private these days.

This ties into shidduch crisis explanation that I find most plausible: a boy tries to be a T’Ch, while a girl wants to marry a T’Ch. Current educational system is great at inspiring everyone – boys to learn and girls too, but it can not miraculously make everyone into a T’Ch. So, naturally, less boys are successful in becoming a T’Ch than girls developing an interest in marrying T’Ch… The only way out of this, without changing attitudes, is dress code and grade inflation – making everyone look like a T’Ch so that everyone is happy.

User – there is absolutely no halachik obligation to wear black/navy and white; these are the identifying characteristics of the current day yeshiva world, but are not obligatory in halacha. Wearing a hat while davening or for shabbos is an obligation according to many poskim, but those who don’t have what to rely on.

What I meant is that the way a man dresses is a clear “statement” regarding how he associates himself. A man, especially under 40 (the yeshiva world adopted this universal mode of dress about 30 years ago) who wears colored shirts, light suits etc, is communicating that he sees himself in the “baalhabatish” world, or MO. I’m not saying this is right or wrong – I personally don’t have an opinion on the matter, but this is the current state of affairs.

“Current educational system is great at inspiring everyone . . . .”

AAQ, if you really believe this, you’re living in a fantasy world.