giving someone chametz

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  • #1253976

    mik5
    Participant

    So I am in the store on Chol Hamoed and there is a lady (probably a shiksa, but possibly a Jewess) who asks me to pass her the bagels on the top shelf because she can’t reach them.
    Am I allowed to pass them to her?

    1. Is this called benefiting from chametz?
    2. Is this lifnei iver? Assisting someone to do an aveira?

    #1253982

    Meno
    Participant

    I heard in a shiur from a prominent posek (he gave the source for this halacha but I don’t remember it) that it is assur to handle chometz on Pesach because we are concerned that you might come to eat it.

    #1253990

    mik5
    Participant

    In this case I am obviously not going to eat it, because it’s in the store and I didn’t pay for it, so obviously I cannot eat it because then I would be a thief.

    Plus, the lady is standing there with her hand outstretched to take the bagels from me, so how I am going to eat it instead of handing it to her? That is extremely unlikely.

    #1253994

    Meno
    Participant

    In this case I am obviously not going to eat it…

    If it’s assur, it’s assur.

    #1254000

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant
    #1254001

    mik5
    Participant

    The chametz is sealed in the bag, so I would not be handling the actual chametz.

    If you accidentally knocked over some chametz onto the floor in a store, would you leave it lying on the floor and make a Chillul Hashem?

    If you accidentally knocked over a bottle of scotch in a store on Pesach, and the contents spilled, are you allowed to pay for it?

    #1254004

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    If it’s assur, it’s assur.

    There are exceptions; perhaps this is another?

    #1254006

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    The chametz is sealed in the bag, so I would not be handling the actual chametz.

    That’s called handling the chometz.

    If you accidentally knocked over some chametz onto the floor in a store, would you leave it lying on the floor and make a Chillul Hashem?

    If you accidentally turned a light off on Shabbos in a public place, can you turn it back on in order not to make a c”H?

    If you accidentally knocked over a bottle of scotch in a store on Pesach, and the contents spilled, are you allowed to pay for it?

    You wouldn’t be buying the Scotch, you’d be paying for the damage.

    #1254015

    Chortkov
    Participant

    You are not allowed to touch Chometz.

    I don’t think you have to be חושש that a woman who appears to be a Goy looking to buy chometz on Pesach is a Jewess. There is a רוב goyim in the city.

    #1254023

    mik5
    Participant

    If it’s in Shoprite in Boro Park, roiv people in BP are Yidden.

    #1254025

    Chortkov
    Participant

    Are roiv people who look like goyim and are unashamedly buying bagels, yidden?

    #1254032

    mik5
    Participant

    If you are looking for a Shabbos goy (in those cases where amira l’akum is permissible), do you need to be certain beyond all doubt that the person you want to use is, in fact, a goy, or do you go by roiv? (E.g., Roiv people in BP who are walking on Shabbos with a cell phone in their hand and with their heads uncovered are goyim.)

    Rav Belsky said that you have to be certain beyond all doubt that he is really a goy.

    #1254038

    Chortkov
    Participant

    Rav Belsky said that you have to be certain beyond all doubt that he is really a goy.

    Because it is a רוב שיכול לברר?

    #1254043

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    How about…why are you in a store that is selling chometz?

    #1254060

    mik5
    Participant

    Let’s say it is ShopRite (owned by goyim) or any other store that is owned by goyim but sells a lot of heimeshe products.

    #1254080

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    ShopRite in BP is not owned by goyim. In the 1960’s (at least here in NYC), yidden generally did not shop in the big supermarkets on chol hamoed pesach.

    #1254091

    mik5
    Participant

    Shoprite is owned by Yidden? Who are not frum? Really? Is there chametz for sale in Shoprite right now?

    #1254318

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    mik5: I am taking your questions seriously. ShopRite supermarkets are franchised so technically each store is independently owned (although one operator can have more than 1 store). So in answer to your questions:

    Shoprite is owned by Yidden? the one on McDonald Ave. – Yes

    Who are not frum? To my knowledge they are not frum.

    Really? Is there chametz for sale in Shoprite right now? – In that ShopRite, yes. They sell their chometz thru Rabbi Beck and as R’ Moshe TZATZAL Paskened, the mechira is still a valid mechira for what was purchased before Pesach.

    #1254338

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    I am shocked and appalled, dismayed, distressed, scandalized, disgusted and deeply bothered by the language in the OP.

    #1254487

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    What if you handed her one of those claws on a stick so she could reach it on her own.

    Is that indirectly handling the chametz? What if you do not own that claw on a stick?

    #1254488

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    I thought a company may br considered owned by nonJews if the stores has shares in the stock market?

    #1254489

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    Can you say that the lady was not Jewish because her hair was uncovered?

    Did you know if she was married?

    #1254490

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    Maybe the OP had to buy something in an emergency that wasn’t carried in a store that does not sell chametz

    #1254581

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    In the 1960’s and 1970’s (at least here in Brooklyn) the common custom was to avoid supermarkets that sold chometz during Pesach (even A&P which wAs owned by non Jews). Again, it was a stringency kept by most yidden. I am not sure when we became less stringent in this issue although my family still abides by it.

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