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When a Meshulach approaches you at home, in shul, or at the groccery… without any certification valadating if he has a legite need for tzedakah, would you not give, or give less then the usual amount that you would have given with valid certification. Or would you say if someone is collecting they obviously need tzedakah, and give as regular?
A token amount should be given even without a certification, but if someone comes up to your home and makes you hear his entire life story expecting a larger amount then its reasonable to expect to see an endorsment of a rav or tzedakah org.
i was always brought up with the chinuch that if a person is going door to door even without a valid certificate, you should give them something. Of course if they have a certificate, you should give them more.
We have a man that comes on Fridays every few weeks. No one on the block knows why he collects of if he’s really in need, but we all give a few dollars. I assume there’s a need.
Halacically one is allowed to ask for a teuda, and to refuse to give in the person does not have one.
If someone rings our bell we try to give(some impatient collectors don’t give you a chance to get to the door). And acquaintance of mine told me one never knows who Eliyahu Hanavi is.
About the teudas,one should check the date and also look if it is real,in other words that the date or name doesn’t look like it has white out and corrections. I was once at Copy Corner and there was someone photocopying,whiting out and putting in corrections/changes.
One who insists on coming into the house, is allowed in and my husband will gladly listen to his/her story.
At one point there was a certain man who would ring our bell close to Shabbos. Each time he had another story(and often another type of hat) and yet i would give him no more than a dollar. Once he came about a week or two later than a previous visit and his story contradicted what he told me earlier. I nicely told him and also added that his stories were so good that if he would publish them he would make more money than ringing peoples door bells. We never saw him again!
If he would again ring my bell, he would probably get his dollar no more or less!!
I don’t have a psak from a Rav nor do I know if what I am doing is halachicly correct…..I have a policy not to give anyone who smells of cigarette smoke or alcohol (it goes without saying if they are drinking or smoking I surely won’t give them).
I try to give everyone who asks, at least a token amount (given the state of my finances, that is ALL I can afford anyway, LOL). But I have trouble right now going up and down steps, so if someone rings my bell and I am upstairs, I will call out the window to see who it is and tell them I cannot open the door right now. they don’t typically come back later in the day. If I know someone is a charlatan (and we had a Muslim woman collecting on Fridays saying “Shabbat Shalom,” until someone discovered she was not even Jewish), i won’t give him the time of day, much less my money. We had a couple who worked one of our main streets, he at one end and she at the other, on erev Shabbos. Neither was Jewish. They too, kept saying, “For Shabbos, for Shabbos.” Rachmanim bnei rachmanim, we fall for these cons, because we cannot fathom someone would take advantage of us that way.
oomis i too remember such a fraud which a Polish houskeeper exposed as she was shopping on 18th Avenue on Shabbos, one of her lanzleit(from Poland) was wearing a yarmulka a asking for Tzedaka so she answered him, “you stupid, don’t you know it’s Shabbos today”! Or what about the woman who went around from door to door and the first thing she asked for water to make a Beracha. She ended up being not Jewish and was arrested on 47th street, Manhattan and deported to her country after stealing heavy thousands of dollars! So if i suspect someone i ask what shul they are affiliated with and that answers many doubts!
Rabbi Mizrachi tells of an Arab who faked as Jew for 20 years and people gave him money for the promises he made!
Our rule when we lived in the states was we kept our tzedaka “in-house;” in other words, we gave to our city institutions only. The second rule was that my wife and/or kids would not answer the door if I was not home. The third rule was we would not answer the door after 9:30 p.m.
A lot of these “rules” seem designed to avoid giving tzedaka.
Actually, the shulchan aruch has rules about giving tzedaka. Family first, is rule number 1. Aniyim of your city come 2nd. I’m not sure where on the list tzedakos that promise all sorts of yeshuos and segulos fall into the list of priority.
Family first in shulchan aruch doesn’t include buying fancy toys first.
A lot of these “rules” seem designed to avoid giving tzedaka.
A lot of these “rules” are for the safety of the family. Meshulochim have been known to try to force their way into homes on occasion.
“The third rule was we would not answer the door after 9:30 p.m.”
Last week a kid who lives down the block rang our bell at 10:30pm collecting for a local tzedakah. Our baby who just fell asleep after crying for a long time woke up and cried again for the next two hours. I was about to call that org. to tell them to teach some basic rules for the kids they send collecting but I was too upset to have that conversation without being disrespectfull.
” Meshulochim have been known to try to force their way into homes on occasion.”
Make that people posing as meshulochim,
Hey, I’ve had mishulochim – or people posing as mishulochim – throw money back at me when they think I’ve not given them enough. They end up with nothing except a door slammed in their face.
I have a policy not to give anyone who smells of cigarette smoke
I won’t give to anyone who has bad personal hygiene. Or wears ugly clothing.
Hey, I’ve had mishulochim – or people posing as mishulochim – throw money back at me when they think I’ve not given them enough. They end up with nothing except a door slammed in their face”
That has happened to me more than once. And I felt really bad, because I literally had no other money to give until my husband’s next paycheck.
Mameshtakah, your rules are excellent ones to follow for safety’s sake. Someone in a neighborhood near mine was actually robbed by frum-looking guys who forced their way in when the baalabos opened the door for them. All the shuls sent out warnings. How sad that we come to this.
i understand the smoking thing- i do not need to support their bad habit it is the same as not giving groups on purim who come in expensive stretched limos if i want to give $ to tzedakah i will give a reputable institution or a family member in need. everyone has someone they know who needs help
1) Are we supposed to sponsor desperate peoples tickets to Uman?
2) I had a guy refuse my donation hoping he would get me give more – he ended up with nothing – ???? ????? ?? ????
3) Dont we pasken ???? ???? ??????.
4) I know a frum doctor who refuses to care for patients who smoke (rightly or wrongly). Is giving tzedaka to fund someones smoking habit correct? Perhaps I would be a ????? ???? ??????
5) I hate it when people use ?????? as marketing tools. Leave them alone. Let them learn without being mithered.
One must look to the ???? and ???? for guidance.
I recently received a call from someone collecting for those who wanted to, but couldn’t afford to buy a pair of rabbeinu tam tefillin. My rav told me that if I had tzedaka money to give, I should rather give it to an organization such as tomche shabbos.
Many valid points. But just keep in mind that it is worth bending toward giving without judging, and we might be treated accordingly by the one who feeds us.
The din kul haposhet yad nosnim, applies on purim.
Not everyone has unlimited resources to write a check to everyone who stops them in shul, the street or knocks at their door. I give most of my maaser to my childrens yeshivos and the rest to the local tomche shabbos and/or masbia.
For those who go around in shul or the street I have available a large bag of change and try to give something (unless as noted above the person reeks of alcohol or cigarettes)..
At home, we have a jar filled with single dollars and anytime someone knocks on the door my children (those who we allow to answer the door) are instructed (if we are not home) to always give 2-3 dollars to each person.
My wife used to offer those collecting something to eat or drink, but after someone collecting plopped himself down on the sofa and wouldnt leave without a check for $180, she to is to scared to offer much more than the few dollars.
It is hard to say who is legit and who not. It is hard to determine who “really” needs and how much. With the exception of my nose test which I have never discussed with my Rav, I prioritize my tzedaka under the direction of my Rav.
Someone who works in Tel Aviv asked his Rabbi about giving to drug addicts. These drug addicts collet at the traffic lights in Tel Aviv and are very oviously “addicts”. He was told to give them small amounts (like a shekel) as kol haposhet yad applies not only on Purim
Can you restate your question?
Got it. The way I see it, (and I could be 100% wrong) I am not obligated to support a persons smoking (or drinking – or – insert your own vice here) habit.
apushutayid:
Oh, I see now. You don’t want to support their vice. I earlier thought you wouldn’t give to anyone who was smoking even if they were collecting for an institution, which is why I compared it to bad personal hygiene.
Well, I guess the answer to your question is you need to know if the began smoking as a kid or as an adult.
The gemara says that we support people ?? ??????, what they lack.
The gemara has a story where a poor person came and the amora asked him what he eats, he said fat geese and old wine, so he gave it to him.
Then another person came who said the same thing and he gave him barley.
He explained that the first one was raised in a wealthy house, so he grew up accustomed to it, while the second became wealthy himself and is at fault for adopting expensive habits.
So if he started smoking at 15, you can hardly say it is his fault.
R-B: That seems a bit odd. Do we not support aniyim who don’t have healthy habits?
I have nothing against an institution that hires smokers.
However, you look at it, a smoker is smoking despite every warning thrown his way. If someone is stupid enough to smoke anyway, I dont feel I have an achrayus to help support the vice.
RB:
You serious? You would not give an ani tzedaka if he has an unhealthy lifestyle?
Why? Because he might die at 60 instead of 80? So?
Do you also not support him if you think he makes other bad life choices?
pba – Would you give a man tzedakah to buy a gun to kill himself?
No.
But, I think it is different.
And for example, I know plenty of people who smoke who are not suicidal. They are just in denial.
No. I do even better and I’m in denial even about the fact that I smoke.
There’s a story of the Brisker Rav who ignored someone who shouted out ‘Tzedaka Tzedaka’ . When asked about this he quoted a posuk or maamar chazal that true anniyim display humility and therefore this person could not be a true ani
Attn Brooklynites and anyone who works in midtown Manhattan:
The “Muslims” who conned Oomis sound like the extended family of tsigane who masquerade as Israelis and work our neighborhoods in Brooklyn as well as the midtown Manhattan shmatte district in front of J2 and Kosher Delight. I’m sure they are still there – they actually operate in Paris as well.
Once you tell them you know they aren’t Jewish, they stop – but call Shomrim as well if they approach you. They need to be removed from our midst once and for all.
They also offer old people help carrying groceries and then steal from them. I saw this happen the night I left the US and the only reason I called Shomrim to handle it is that I would have ended up arrested had I made a citizen’s arrest.
Recently, we had someone come collecting by us and when I opened the door I jumped a mile. I was totally not expecting someone black to be at my door. I am not racist I just live in a very jewish neighborhood and this is not of the norm. I felt so bad because he was wearing a yamalka and saw that I jumped. I gave him money and the next time he came, I was less taken aback so did not jump. I still feel bad about it though:(
apushatayid, didn’t your Rosh Yehsiva used to smoke? Did you give money to Rochester during that time?
“true anniyim display humility”
Real anniyim do not have azus and that is why a collector is a fake if he demands more money or if he throws back your money.
My Rov has told me many times I have no Chiyuv to give anyone who does not have a letter from our local Va’ad.
Besides I agree with apushatayid. Every penny I give to someone means someone else doesn’t get it (excluding my own additional generosity, of course :-). Best to give it to the people who need it the most.
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