April 8, 2015 5:24 pm at 5:24 pm #615450balancehumanbalanceParticipant
What are the pros and cons?April 8, 2015 5:45 pm at 5:45 pm #1071390
I have an English name (my parents were not frum at the time). My kids, however, have only Hebrew names. The names on their birth certificates are their Hebrew names.
Look at it this way — if other cultures can be proud of their heritage and give their kids ethnic names, then why shouldn’t we?
The Wolf (who is just waiting for someone to accuse him of violating “Chukas HaGoy” because of his reasoning 🙂 )April 8, 2015 5:52 pm at 5:52 pm #1071391
Pro- Some jewish names are hard to pronounce like Chaya or Chaim for english speakers. Also some jewish names might sound funny in english and have a different meaning (to someone who doesnt speak Hebrew or Yiddish)April 8, 2015 7:11 pm at 7:11 pm #1071392
Cons – Should the unfortunate need for a get arise, they may have to figure out how to spell the “English” name in the get, certainly if it one of the non common names.
Is Chaim or Chaya harder to pronounce than many Asian names or African names?
Or Le-a, for that matter?April 8, 2015 7:22 pm at 7:22 pm #1071393JosephParticipant
A Gett has a person’s secular name?April 8, 2015 7:24 pm at 7:24 pm #1071394akupermaParticipant
Define “English”? Is “Mosheh” an English name, it is written in the Roman alphabet as pronounced in the English speaking countries, and represents a systematic romanization of the Hebrew. Given that the Roman alphabet, and English in particular, are used for most communciations, everyone ends up with a romanized version of their real name, in this case, ???. Like it or not, in the 21st century ones needs a consistent way to express one’s name in the Roman alphabet, and in most countries, that means the English-version (e.g. with ? romanized as a “sh” rather than “sch” or “ch” or whatever).
For someone named ???? do you mean a name such as Yaakov (a romanized form), or perhaps Jacob or James or Jim or Jacques, etc. All those are translations of the Hebrew original – as opposed to picking a popular name that is merely similar to the Hebrew (e.g. all those Morrises, Seymours, Myrons, etc.).
Having only a romanized version of the real name is a clear statement of who you are. If the child should go off the derekh or get adopted/kidnapped, any time they research their birth name, they will realize they came from a traditional Jewish background.
editedApril 8, 2015 7:39 pm at 7:39 pm #1071395
Besides, if it ever turns out that they *need* an English name, for whatever reason, they can always change their names legally after they turn eighteen.
The WolfApril 8, 2015 8:06 pm at 8:06 pm #1071396
Many asians for that reason get anglosized names like “Jimmy” because their real name is unpronouceable to most americansApril 8, 2015 8:27 pm at 8:27 pm #1071397barlevParticipant
We all have Jewish names only
We have foreign passports with Hebrew names
Europe is learning to copy with Muslim names, which are much harder to say…..April 12, 2015 2:55 am at 2:55 am #1071398147Participant
My kids, however, have only Hebrew names. exclusively, and NO Jiddish names, as Jewish names by definition are taken from Tenach and Seforim and are in Loshon Kodesh = Hebrew names and no other foreign language.April 12, 2015 3:39 am at 3:39 am #1071399ubiquitinParticipant
147 What are you talking about? So in your opinion the following arent Jewish names?
Names that are Hebrew words that nobody in Tenach had eg: Chaim, Pesach, Yom Tov, Aryeh, Tzvi, Dov, Ilan etc
Names of Tanaim and Amaraim that arent in Tenach: Yochanan, Yanai, Abaye Rava, Huna, Akiva, etc
And of course names that we adoptied from goyim Alexander, Hyrkanus etc
Jewish Names are simply names used by Jews if enough Jews name their kid “Lemon Juice” at a certain point it too will become a Jewish name (I don’t know how long it would take) All the more so, if the name is something identifiably Jewish like a yiddish equivalant of an existing Hebrew name then the process is much faster.April 12, 2015 3:45 am at 3:45 am #1071400
None of those names are Jiddish either.
I would not give a Jiddish name, it sounds like a game from the Harry Potter series.
A Yiddish name, on the other hand sounds like it comes from Yid.April 12, 2015 3:49 am at 3:49 am #1071401
If they are called by that name, yes. Coulld be ?????? or ??????. Depending on how the secular name is used.April 12, 2015 3:50 am at 3:50 am #1071402akupermaParticipant
Define a Jewish name:
If your kid is separated from you and raised as a goy, and discovers his original name, will it tell him he is really a Yid?April 12, 2015 3:51 am at 3:51 am #1071403
And many don’t. And many Africans don’t.
I know of Ganapathi, and Manpreet and Sharada, all Asian. All in professional positions.April 12, 2015 4:10 am at 4:10 am #1071404147Participant
ubiquitin:- You didn’t read my comments properly. I said Tenach & Seforim. To the best of my knowledge:- Mishna & Gemoro are defined as a Sepher? Because I am well aware of wonderful names like Meir not being in Tenach.April 12, 2015 12:12 pm at 12:12 pm #1071405ubiquitinParticipant
147 any book is a sefer.
Where do you draw the line t seforim to the best of my knowledge seforin have been written in 2015 too?
Leib is mentioned in seforim though not in tenach/mishna/gemara.
What year heralded the closing of Jewish names in your opinion and why then
Also nobody in tenach/mishna/gemara had the names chaim, pesach ,yomtov ilan etc. Are these then not jewish names?April 12, 2015 1:07 pm at 1:07 pm #1071406
There are Anglo names that are also Jewish names
IE Molly , Isodore (Izzy) , Wolf
Besides most peoples last names are jewish even if they are anglosized. Goldstein or Steinberg might be anglosized, but they are clearly jewish.
Someone with the name Christina Goldstein would clearly make you think they might be jewish (or at least have jewish blood in them)April 12, 2015 3:35 pm at 3:35 pm #1071407
My kids, however, have only Hebrew names. exclusively, and NO Jiddish names, as Jewish names by definition are taken from Tenach and Seforim and are in Loshon Kodesh = Hebrew names and no other foreign language.
Actually, in my case, that’s true. All of my kids’ names (except for one) is the name of someone in Tanach. The one exception is a Hebrew word found very commonly in Tanach (but isn’t actually someone’s name).
I preferred not to give Yiddish names, although, if my wife would have insisted, I wouldn’t have fought her over it (as long as there was also a Hebrew name). As it turns out, we agreed on the matter anyway.
The WolfApril 12, 2015 4:16 pm at 4:16 pm #1071408JosephParticipant
if my wife would have insisted, I wouldn’t have fought her over it (as long as there was also a Hebrew name)
If she insisted on a single name in Yiddish you’d have fought your wife over it?April 12, 2015 7:49 pm at 7:49 pm #1071409
If she insisted on a single name in Yiddish you’d have fought your wife over it?
I don’t know. Since it did not come up and we’re done having kids, it doesn’t really matter anymore.
The WolfApril 12, 2015 8:46 pm at 8:46 pm #1071410CTLAWYERParticipant
I have both, my wife has both and our children have names that work well in both languages (example David and Tamara).
We live out of town. My wife and I used our Hebrew names in the home, in Day school, Yeshiva and Seminary, BUT we used English names in University, Law School and our professional practice.
The goyim out of town may want Jewish lawyers, but they don’t want them with names sounding as if they just came from the shtetl.
Things have changed since I attended an Ivy League University 45 years ago, but there are times my children are glad we have a non-ethnic last name.
BTW>>>Yiddish names or Jewish names pronounced the Yiddish way were never a consideration. This 5th generation American is of German Jewish stock. Mrs. CT Lawyer is first generation American born of German and Austrian born parents who made it to Palestine in the early 30s. Many a Yeshiva menahel had to be instructed that our David’s name was pronounced DaVeed, not Duvid. The language preferences in our home is Hebrew, followed by German (to speak to in-laws) and then English. Because of fluency in Hebrew and German, we all understand most Yiddish, but do not speak it.April 13, 2015 2:37 am at 2:37 am #1071411☢️ Rand0m3x 🎲Participant
“Abaye” was not Abaye’s actual name.April 13, 2015 2:40 am at 2:40 am #1071412☢️ Rand0m3x 🎲Participant
To me, the difference in this matter between earlier generations in
America, who had “a name” and “a Hebrew name,” and later generations, whose “name” was/is their “Hebrew name,” and might or
might not have, additionally, a legal name, is telling.November 14, 2021 10:50 am at 10:50 am #2028036
Is the name “Gil” a secular/non-Hebrew name (perhaps short for Gilbert) or is it an Israeli-Hebrew secular name (as the secular Israelis have a habit of coming up with names heretofore unused) or is it a Jewish name that’s been in common use over the last number of centuries?November 14, 2021 3:14 pm at 3:14 pm #2028129
Abaya was an orphan named by an acronym asher becha yerucham yasom, א’שר ב’ך י’רוחם י’תום, where in You a orphan consoles.November 14, 2021 6:57 pm at 6:57 pm #2028254Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipant
We try to give Jewish names that are reasonably normal for American ear (ie yes Jacob and Leah, but not Berl or Feiga). In one case, we used a mamash name the way it is spelled in English Tanach, but turns out 99% of the public can’t figure it out. Maybe the kid will need to live among more religious general population. Second names come handy in case first ones do not work out well, but so far nobody is opting for that. Second names also work handy in case of similar names in the same class (unless it is Chaya Mushka).November 14, 2021 10:15 pm at 10:15 pm #2028317ㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤParticipant
i bedafka dont have an english name because of how hard it is to prounouce my name.November 15, 2021 12:54 am at 12:54 am #2028344Naftush-2Participant
Zehava’ Dad writes: “Goldstein or Steinberg might be anglosized [sic] but they are clearly jewish [sic]. Ironically, our Goldsteins and Steinbergs probably got their “clearly Jewish” names by coercion. It began on July 23, 1787, at the hand of the Austrian emperor Joseph II. Much of Prussia followed in 1790–1794. Napoleon did the same in 1808 for France and all lands west of the Rhine; many other parts of Germany required it within a few years. In 1812, when Napoleon had occupied much of Prussia, surname adoption was mandated for the unoccupied parts; and Jews in the rest of Prussia adopted surnames in 1845. Concurrently, Jewish surname laws emerged Western Galicia (1805), Frankfurt-am-Main (1807), Hessen-Darmstadt (1808), Baden (1809), Westphalia (1808, 1811), Bavaria (1813), Wurttemberg and Hannover (1828), Posen (1833), Saxony (1834), and Oldenburg (1852). These areas were home to the great majority of European Ashkenazic Jews. (Extracted from Jeffrey Mark Paull and Jeffrey Briskman, “History, Adoption, and Regulation of Jewish Surnames in the Russian Empire: A Review”).
Most Ashkenazi Jews who didn’t adopt Gentile-sounding surnames by coercion did it voluntarily in order to enjoy the benefits of the Emancipation.November 15, 2021 7:34 am at 7:34 am #20283685TResidentParticipant
I have an English name and I use it constantly. That’s because when I was a kid, my classmates would tease me endlessly for my Hebrew name.November 15, 2021 7:35 am at 7:35 am #2028370Avi KParticipant
Yiddish names are really German names. In many places, clerks gave Jews last names based on the amount of the bribe (in some places, it was called a tip). Those who could not pay much, or anything, received insulting names. For example, “Krombein” means “broken leg”. Some, as with gentiles, were their occupations or their former towns (e.g. Landau, Horowitz). There were also levi’im who took the names of songbirds, such as fink (finch). In Russia, the “h” was turned into a “g” as the Russian language does not have the former sound. Thus, for example, Horowiz and Gorowitz are really the same name.November 15, 2021 8:43 am at 8:43 am #2028413
The Maharam Shick was forced to have a secular name, so he called himself Shick an acronym for Shem Yisroel Kodash, שם ישראל קודש.November 15, 2021 9:38 am at 9:38 am #2028431
Reb Eliezer, do you know what the Barditchiver chose?November 15, 2021 10:37 am at 10:37 am #2028456commonsaychelParticipant
I have very simple same that is the same in Hebrew and English, think Zev, Hersh, Leib, Wolf etc. the use of hebrew names is not that uncommon, think Ari Fleicher, Wolf Blitzer, Ari Goldman etc.
I rose thru the ranks of corporate america without a issue of my first name.November 15, 2021 11:03 am at 11:03 am #2028476HealthParticipant
FC -“i bedafka dont have an english name because of how hard it is to prounouce my name.”
From your SN – I guess your name is Farbissin.
I’m sure anyone can pronounce this!November 15, 2021 11:17 am at 11:17 am #2028487ZSKParticipant
@Joseph – “A Gett has a person’s secular name?”
Yes. According to Halacha, you are required to use all names that either spouse or their fathers go by. This is so there is no ambiguity with regard to who the people in question are.
We all know you can’t stand the State of Israel or the Rabbanut/Misrad HaDatot, but if you’ve ever seen a Get issued by them, you will see the phrase “X aka Y aka Z”.In Aramaic, obviously.
I deal with this enough in a professional capacity to know.November 15, 2021 1:24 pm at 1:24 pm #2028516shlucha22Participant
My name is interestingly enough aramaic. I found it in targum unkelus. I think you can spell it with an alef or a hey which changes the meaning, a hey is hebrew and an alef is aramaic. none of my siblings have english names and some of them are complicated, but only my parents have for some reason.November 15, 2021 4:36 pm at 4:36 pm #2028593
I heard from someone who was named Shaya, it is good that my father did not also name me Getz because then I would have been called shaygetz, which is a diminutive for sheketz.November 15, 2021 7:20 pm at 7:20 pm #2028688Shimon NodelParticipant
How about naming your kid Buki or Yagli? Or mane your daughter Machla?November 15, 2021 11:42 pm at 11:42 pm #2028765KuvultParticipant
My sons Jewish name is “Aron Dovid” His Non-Jewish name is “Mendel Lipa”November 16, 2021 9:26 am at 9:26 am #2028884
Hershel goes with Tzvi, Leib with Aryeh, Wolf with Zev and Berel with Dov.November 16, 2021 9:53 am at 9:53 am #2028949
Reb Eliezer, many people are named both, like: Yehuda Aryeh Leib.November 16, 2021 12:20 pm at 12:20 pm #2028990
The Maharal, Ketzos, Shagas Aryeh, Potzker who left behind that for whomever publishes his seforim he will be a melitz yosher, a defender above, and the Kol Aryeh.November 16, 2021 2:17 pm at 2:17 pm #2029092
It should above Plotzker.November 17, 2021 10:01 am at 10:01 am #2029619benignumanParticipant
There are two reasons to give your kids secular names:
1) Jews should always be concerned that we may need to escape from our current host country. To do this, it would be helpful to be able to pass as non-Jews. A secular name on your passport can be the difference between life and death.
2) It makes things much easier for your kid if they have to work in the secular world.November 17, 2021 10:09 am at 10:09 am #2029624
Blacks are named Ezra.
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