January 31, 2011 9:17 pm at 9:17 pm #594659jewishnessParticipant
What do you know about the Goral Hagra? How does it work? Can common folk like myself use it? Can flipping open to a random page work?
Can I use it for basic things, like to know if I should pursue a certain business venture or what school to send my kid to?
What about questions like where my misplaced coat is? Must it be life threatening?January 31, 2011 9:33 pm at 9:33 pm #1027375AinOhdMilvadoParticipant
It is something done very rarely, for very special purposes, by very special tzadikim.January 31, 2011 9:34 pm at 9:34 pm #1027376deiyezoogerMember
Gorel hagra is not just opening a sefer it has a special way to do it. its something like taking a chumish and opening it and then counting seven parshos and then seven psukim. (I dont know the exact order but I know someone who did it and it was scary how accurate it was).January 31, 2011 9:39 pm at 9:39 pm #1027378popa_bar_abbaParticipant
I once posted in the shidduch stories thread about this.
I was once redt to a girl from England. I wanted to make sure it was the right one before flying to Europe, so I did a goral ha’G”RA.
I opened to “Lo mei’eiver layom hee…”, so I dropped it.January 31, 2011 9:43 pm at 9:43 pm #1027379AinOhdMilvadoParticipant
“One dramatic instance of the use of the Gra Goral was in the identification of the bodies of 12 members of the Lamed Heh (the Convoy of 35, with the Hebrew letters lamed and heh being equivalent to the numbers 30 and 5, respectively ). The 35 fighters, members of the Haganah pre-state militia, were killed in January 1948, during the War of Independence, at the foot of the Arab village of Tzurif, during their attempt to reach the Etzion Bloc of Jewish settlements, south of Jerusalem. The bodies of the fighters were mutilated by the Arab attackers who killed them, and only in 1951 were the corpses gathered. By that time, it was possible to identify only 23 of the bodies conclusively.
The chief rabbi of Jerusalem at the time, Tzvi Pesach Frank, ruled that the identification of the remaining bodies would be determined by the Gra lottery, and the task was assigned to the revered Jerusalem sage Rabbi Aryeh Levin.
The identification took place in Levin’s beit midrash, in the presence of representatives of the bereaved parents. Twelve candles were lit, the Bible was opened at random seven times and Rabbi Levin ruled that as they stood in front of the remains of each of the fallen fighters, the last verse on the page had to include the name, or an allusion to the name, of each of those whom they were trying to identify. “How amazed everyone was when one of the verses that first appeared was ‘The earth is the Lord’s, and the fullness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein,’ a verse that [in Hebrew] begins with the word ‘to the Lord,'” which is abbreviated in Hebrew with the initials lamed-heh. “Moreover, to everyone’s amazement, every page spoke unequivocally. In the first verse they reached there was a specific name that clearly identified one of the fallen … One after the other … the identity of the fallen was determined.” (Quoted in “A Tzaddik in Our Time: The Life of Rabbi Aryeh Levin,” by Simcha Raz, who also provides the official minutes of the lottery. ) While a lottery was often used for private matters, here the lottery was conducted for the purpose of a decision of great public significance.”January 31, 2011 9:43 pm at 9:43 pm #1027380Derech HaMelechMember
AOM said it right. You need to be pretty confident that your zchusim in the Bank are gonna cover the check you are writing out to get Hashem to communicate with you directly via the goral.January 31, 2011 10:11 pm at 10:11 pm #1027381
What I know is that it is not from the Gra.January 31, 2011 11:33 pm at 11:33 pm #1027382ItcheSrulikMember
I heard that, but I don’t know the source. How is it proven that it isn’t from the Gra? Is it known who it is from?February 1, 2011 12:53 am at 12:53 am #1027383Feif UnParticipant
There was another instance where R’ Ahron Kotler wasn’t sure whether to follow R’ Moshe Feinstein to the US, or to go to Israel. He opened to the pasuk in Shemos “And Hashem said to Aharon, go meet Moshe, in the midbar”.February 1, 2011 2:10 am at 2:10 am #1027384popa_bar_abbaParticipant
I posted this on the shidduch stories thread, but I’ll post it here again.
I was redt to a girl from England. I wanted to make sure it was the right one before flying to Europe, so I did the Gaon’s goral. The page opened to “Lo mei’eiver l’yom hee…”, so I dropped it.February 1, 2011 2:19 am at 2:19 am #1027385sof davar hakol nishmaMember
it does work, it’s a real thing, should not be used for just anything and as many said above theres a special way to do it. (i think 2 ways) I know a family that had abig decision to make, they were shoel eitzah and both people they asked didn’t give a straight answer. they did the goral hagra and the answer was clear.February 1, 2011 3:57 am at 3:57 am #1027386deiyezoogerMember
I know someone whos mother was sick and the family was undecided about what treatments to do so the son did the gorel hagra, the answer was
????? ???? ??? ???August 12, 2014 4:21 pm at 4:21 pm #1027388bekitzurParticipant
If it’s not from the Gra, who is it from?August 12, 2014 10:09 pm at 10:09 pm #1027389
Before him. The Chidah mentions it as an earlier tradition.
I’ll preempt Sam here by wondering why this is defferent from the Issur of Shoalin Bagoralos. Perhaps, because we are Mispallel that Hashem answer us through this method, and we only follow when it is a clear sign of Hashgacha, whereas Goralos would be deciding based on which side the oil flows.August 12, 2014 10:13 pm at 10:13 pm #1027390
Tosafos’ Pshat on Eliezer and Yonason of the Siman making sense, does not apply here. But the Maharal’s Pshat of Tzorach Mitzva does.August 12, 2014 11:08 pm at 11:08 pm #1027391Sam2Participant
HaLeiVi: I intentionally stayed away from this thread and now you brought me into it. 🙁
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