goyish music

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  • #618568

    is it ok for men to listen to goyish music if number 1 its a man singing and number 2 if there are no bad words?

    #1188298
    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    It would probably depend on what you mean by “no bad words”. Even if there aren’t bad words, the question still remains, “What is the content? What message is being given over in the words? Is it one that is antithetical to Judaism or not?

    In other words, it’s not enough that the words aren’t bad, you have to make that the sentences are also okay.

    #1188299
    golfer
    Participant

    Non of yo b,

    Shira yevanis, I’m guessing you’re asking about.

    Probably not the best use of your time, your auditory nerves, and your thoughts.

    Arguably not the worst either.

    #1188300
    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Some non-Jewish music is better than some Jewish music.

    #1188302
    Abba_S
    Participant

    If you are talking about the music most Jewish music is copied from goyish music. If you are referring to the lyrics that is problematic.

    #1188303
    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    In one of Rav Matisyahu’s books, he writes that words are the problem, not the music. So it’s not a problem to listen to Jewish music that is taken from goyish music, unless you know the real words and they are problematic (since you will think of the real words when you listen to the music).

    One problem I have discovered though is that normally if I am somewhere where goyish music is being played (a bus or goyish store – although I try to avoid such places), I am usually able to block it out and not listen, but if it’s a tune that is used by Jewish musicians, I will end up hearing it and hearing the real words.

    #1188304
    flatbusher
    Participant

    I don’t know if I agree that most Jewish music is copied, if you’re talking about the songs themselves. Back in the70s and 80s it seemed like ripping off of non-Jewish music was more common. Maybe because today’s goyish music is less musical it’s not copyworthy

    #1188305
    yeshivishe kup
    Participant

    NO IT IS TERRIBLE!!!! DO NOT EVEN TRY!!!

    #1188306
    flatbusher
    Participant

    kup–you speak from experience?

    #1188307
    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    If you’re talking about modern songs, I would guess that Yeshivishe kup is right. However, if you are talking about really old songs, some would say they are better than modern Jewish music (although I personally have no problem with modern Jewish music).

    There was a book I read a long time ago (I think it was “The way it was” by Hindy Krohn”). The author talks about how Jewish music had just started being recorded. His mother wouldn’t let him listen to Jewish music and told him that not-Jewish was better (and fine). This was several generations ago, and I’m sure she would not have said the same about today’s music.

    Of course, you have to make sure that listening to old (kosher) goyish music doesn’t lead you to start listening to treif goyish music.

    #1188308

    I once listened to goyishe music and now I am a Christian missionary. I will never forgive the goyishe music I listened to for doing this to me.

    #1188309
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Almost every frum Simcha plays the Music from The Final Countdown by Europe. if you google it and hear you will recognize the tune immediately

    #1188310
    reuventree555
    Participant

    “I once listened to goyishe music and now I am a Christian missionary. I will never forgive the goyishe music I listened to for doing this to me.”

    Do you make good money as a missionary? I could use a few dollars…

    #1188311
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    And the Song everyone Sings Hashem Melech, Hashem Molach Hashem Yimloch is actually a French/Arabic Song by Khalid called C’est la Vie

    #1188312
    gofish
    Member

    I listen to non Jewish music almost every day. I only listen to clean music that helps me become a better person – I always check the lyrics before listening to a new song to make sure it’s appropriate.

    Edited. Not sure who accidentally approved that portion of the post…

    #1188313
    Meno
    Participant

    “Almost every frum Simcha plays the Music from The Final Countdown by Europe.”

    I don’t think I’ve ever heard The Final Countdown at a simcha.

    Baker Street by Gerry Rafferty, however, is played my many simchas.

    #1188315
    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    What is The Final Countdown by Europe?

    #1188317
    Meno
    Participant

    “What is The Final Countdown by Europe?”

    I would sing it for you but the coffee room doesn’t support that (yet).

    So I’ll just type it out for you (it’s just from memory so it may be a bit off):

    Vrooom…Dada Daa Daa

    Vrooom…Dada Da Da Daa

    Vrooom…Dada Daa Daa

    Vrooom…Dada Da Da Da Da Da

    etc.

    #1188318
    reuventree555
    Participant

    “What is The Final Countdown by Europe?”

    Europe is a band. The Final Countdown is a song. If you google the song–you should recognize the tune very quickly.

    #1188319
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    The opening to the Song The Final Countdown is most often (Along with Baker St) at a Chassanah when they introduce the Chassan and Kallah for the first time

    But Ive heard the Opening to the Final Countdown played in other ways at Simcha events

    #1188320
    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    Thanks Meno and Reuven. I didn’t realize that Europe is a band, so I was confused.

    #1188322
    Abba_S
    Participant

    Correction “If you are talking about the music most Jewish music is copied from goyish music.” My statistical sample may not have been accurate and I should have said a significant portion of Jewish music comes from Goyish music..

    Most music you hear now a days has been converted to electrical impulses by a microphone and then converted back to sound waves by a speaker. So from a Halachic standpoint is music actually music? This maybe relevant regarding prohibitions enacted in remembrance to the destruction of the temple.

    #1188323
    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Plagiarism happens to be illegal.

    #1188325
    Abba_S
    Participant

    RebYidd23- Plagiarism happens to be illegal. Only if the copyright owner sues, otherwise it’s no different then speeding which most times you don’t get caught.

    #1188326
    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    “No Loshon Hora may be said from the time you wake up till the time you go to bed”. Speaking about Am Yisrael as a whole or a group within Am Yisrael is worse than speaking about an individual.

    #1188327
    showjoe
    Participant

    “is it ok for men to listen to goyish music if number 1 its a man singing and number 2 if there are no bad words?”

    l’choraha it would be very hard to find a halachich problem with listening to kosher non-jewish music

    #1188328
    Meno
    Participant

    I once found an English sefer lying around in a shul which discussed the problems with non-Jewish music. I was curious, so I flipped through it a bit.

    One of the things it said was something along the lines of non-Jewish music being physically unhealthy because the beats used can change your heart rate.

    I laughed.

    #1188329
    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    Meno – maybe it’s true. I don’t see why not.

    #1188330
    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Because it has proven health benefits.

    #1188331
    Meno
    Participant

    LU,

    Maybe, but it just seems like a silly reason to say it’s assur. There are so many things that change a person’s heart rate. I think it should be irrelevant in deciding whether the music is mutar or not

    #1188332
    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    Meno – true. I just don’t know anything about any research/sources on the topic, and it’s possible that it’s true. Of course, then it could also apply to much Jewish music (which the writer might have been including in the term “goyish music”). Loud music has definitely been shown to be bad for one’s hearing.

    But you’re right – that is not the ikar reason to not listen to goyish music, in any event!

    #1188333
    reuventree555
    Participant

    I agree with Meno. A spicy cholent can change your heart rate. An inspiring dvar Torah can change your heart rate. An amazing Simchas Torah hakafos can change your heart rate. Yet, I don’t see any calls to ban those things…

    #1188334
    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    Reuven – good point.

    #1188335
    Meno
    Participant

    I once got tinnitus (constant ringing in the ear) that lasted several days, after a Chanukah Chagiga in a Yeshiva. It was the worst when there was no background noise, such as when I was trying to go to sleep. That can seriously drive a person mad.

    #1188336
    Shopping613 🌠
    Participant

    I think this thread should be closed. There are multiple detailed threads on this topic. If anyone wants to really know the answer, it’s been shoved through rigorous nitpicking on a few other threads. I think that is also why so few people answered. Because we saw this 3 months ago, 6 months ago. Just forward such people to the older ones.

    #1188337
    reuventree555
    Participant

    36 posts in 4 days is plenty. Not really sure why the thread should be closed. People seem to have strong opinions on this topic- so I’d rather hear current thoughts instead of seeing posts on this topic from 4 years ago.

    #1188338
    golfer
    Participant

    Not trying to nitpick Meno, but I would say more like-

    Dadada Vroom

    Da da da da Dah

    Dadada Vroom

    Da da da dah da da

    Seriously though, I’m always a little taken aback at the welcome we give the Chassan Kallah when they come to dance after the Chuppa and yichud (and pictures of course).

    Would you, for example, have the band strike up this tune on Motzei Yom Kippur after an inspiring Ne’ilah?

    (I have actually heard some beautiful niggunim sung joyously at that time. None of them sounded like they were stolen from a rock band, or heavy metal, or whatever category the talented members of Europe fall into.)

    #1188339
    Shopping613 🌠
    Participant

    There was a similar thread 3 months ago around…they aren’t that old. People gave real long detailed explanations. I don’t know about others but I wrote a passionate post or a few on it and I have no intention of rewriting it to explain it to him.

    #1188340
    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    Shopping – you could post the link if you really want to.

    #1188341
    reuventree555
    Participant

    Shopping- I respect your decision.

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