October 27, 2016 12:31 am at 12:31 am #618568non of yo beez waxMember
is it ok for men to listen to goyish music if number 1 its a man singing and number 2 if there are no bad words?October 27, 2016 1:31 am at 1:31 am #1188298
It would probably depend on what you mean by “no bad words”. Even if there aren’t bad words, the question still remains, “What is the content? What message is being given over in the words? Is it one that is antithetical to Judaism or not?
In other words, it’s not enough that the words aren’t bad, you have to make that the sentences are also okay.October 27, 2016 2:08 am at 2:08 am #1188299golferParticipant
Non of yo b,
Shira yevanis, I’m guessing you’re asking about.
Probably not the best use of your time, your auditory nerves, and your thoughts.
Arguably not the worst either.October 27, 2016 2:25 am at 2:25 am #1188300
Some non-Jewish music is better than some Jewish music.October 27, 2016 1:08 pm at 1:08 pm #1188302
If you are talking about the music most Jewish music is copied from goyish music. If you are referring to the lyrics that is problematic.October 27, 2016 1:44 pm at 1:44 pm #1188303
In one of Rav Matisyahu’s books, he writes that words are the problem, not the music. So it’s not a problem to listen to Jewish music that is taken from goyish music, unless you know the real words and they are problematic (since you will think of the real words when you listen to the music).
One problem I have discovered though is that normally if I am somewhere where goyish music is being played (a bus or goyish store – although I try to avoid such places), I am usually able to block it out and not listen, but if it’s a tune that is used by Jewish musicians, I will end up hearing it and hearing the real words.October 27, 2016 1:52 pm at 1:52 pm #1188304flatbusherParticipant
I don’t know if I agree that most Jewish music is copied, if you’re talking about the songs themselves. Back in the70s and 80s it seemed like ripping off of non-Jewish music was more common. Maybe because today’s goyish music is less musical it’s not copyworthyOctober 27, 2016 2:06 pm at 2:06 pm #1188305yeshivishe kupParticipant
NO IT IS TERRIBLE!!!! DO NOT EVEN TRY!!!October 27, 2016 2:08 pm at 2:08 pm #1188306flatbusherParticipant
kup–you speak from experience?October 27, 2016 2:35 pm at 2:35 pm #1188307
If you’re talking about modern songs, I would guess that Yeshivishe kup is right. However, if you are talking about really old songs, some would say they are better than modern Jewish music (although I personally have no problem with modern Jewish music).
There was a book I read a long time ago (I think it was “The way it was” by Hindy Krohn”). The author talks about how Jewish music had just started being recorded. His mother wouldn’t let him listen to Jewish music and told him that not-Jewish was better (and fine). This was several generations ago, and I’m sure she would not have said the same about today’s music.
Of course, you have to make sure that listening to old (kosher) goyish music doesn’t lead you to start listening to treif goyish music.October 27, 2016 2:59 pm at 2:59 pm #1188308Veltz MeshugenerMember
I once listened to goyishe music and now I am a Christian missionary. I will never forgive the goyishe music I listened to for doing this to me.October 27, 2016 3:06 pm at 3:06 pm #1188309
Almost every frum Simcha plays the Music from The Final Countdown by Europe. if you google it and hear you will recognize the tune immediatelyOctober 27, 2016 3:14 pm at 3:14 pm #1188310
“I once listened to goyishe music and now I am a Christian missionary. I will never forgive the goyishe music I listened to for doing this to me.”
Do you make good money as a missionary? I could use a few dollars…October 27, 2016 3:17 pm at 3:17 pm #1188311
And the Song everyone Sings Hashem Melech, Hashem Molach Hashem Yimloch is actually a French/Arabic Song by Khalid called C’est la VieOctober 27, 2016 3:46 pm at 3:46 pm #1188312gofishMember
I listen to non Jewish music almost every day. I only listen to clean music that helps me become a better person – I always check the lyrics before listening to a new song to make sure it’s appropriate.
Edited. Not sure who accidentally approved that portion of the post…October 27, 2016 3:48 pm at 3:48 pm #1188313
“Almost every frum Simcha plays the Music from The Final Countdown by Europe.”
I don’t think I’ve ever heard The Final Countdown at a simcha.
Baker Street by Gerry Rafferty, however, is played my many simchas.October 27, 2016 4:26 pm at 4:26 pm #1188315
What is The Final Countdown by Europe?October 27, 2016 4:46 pm at 4:46 pm #1188317
“What is The Final Countdown by Europe?”
I would sing it for you but the coffee room doesn’t support that (yet).
So I’ll just type it out for you (it’s just from memory so it may be a bit off):
Vrooom…Dada Daa Daa
Vrooom…Dada Da Da Daa
Vrooom…Dada Daa Daa
Vrooom…Dada Da Da Da Da Da
etc.October 27, 2016 5:00 pm at 5:00 pm #1188318
“What is The Final Countdown by Europe?”
Europe is a band. The Final Countdown is a song. If you google the song–you should recognize the tune very quickly.October 27, 2016 5:28 pm at 5:28 pm #1188319
The opening to the Song The Final Countdown is most often (Along with Baker St) at a Chassanah when they introduce the Chassan and Kallah for the first time
But Ive heard the Opening to the Final Countdown played in other ways at Simcha eventsOctober 27, 2016 5:32 pm at 5:32 pm #1188320
Thanks Meno and Reuven. I didn’t realize that Europe is a band, so I was confused.October 30, 2016 10:04 am at 10:04 am #1188322
Correction “If you are talking about the music most Jewish music is copied from goyish music.” My statistical sample may not have been accurate and I should have said a significant portion of Jewish music comes from Goyish music..
Most music you hear now a days has been converted to electrical impulses by a microphone and then converted back to sound waves by a speaker. So from a Halachic standpoint is music actually music? This maybe relevant regarding prohibitions enacted in remembrance to the destruction of the temple.October 30, 2016 5:44 pm at 5:44 pm #1188323
Plagiarism happens to be illegal.October 30, 2016 8:58 pm at 8:58 pm #1188325
RebYidd23- Plagiarism happens to be illegal. Only if the copyright owner sues, otherwise it’s no different then speeding which most times you don’t get caught.October 30, 2016 9:16 pm at 9:16 pm #1188326
“No Loshon Hora may be said from the time you wake up till the time you go to bed”. Speaking about Am Yisrael as a whole or a group within Am Yisrael is worse than speaking about an individual.October 30, 2016 10:34 pm at 10:34 pm #1188327showjoeParticipant
“is it ok for men to listen to goyish music if number 1 its a man singing and number 2 if there are no bad words?”
l’choraha it would be very hard to find a halachich problem with listening to kosher non-jewish musicOctober 31, 2016 3:18 pm at 3:18 pm #1188328
I once found an English sefer lying around in a shul which discussed the problems with non-Jewish music. I was curious, so I flipped through it a bit.
One of the things it said was something along the lines of non-Jewish music being physically unhealthy because the beats used can change your heart rate.
I laughed.October 31, 2016 3:39 pm at 3:39 pm #1188329
Meno – maybe it’s true. I don’t see why not.October 31, 2016 3:46 pm at 3:46 pm #1188330
Because it has proven health benefits.October 31, 2016 3:46 pm at 3:46 pm #1188331
Maybe, but it just seems like a silly reason to say it’s assur. There are so many things that change a person’s heart rate. I think it should be irrelevant in deciding whether the music is mutar or notOctober 31, 2016 3:53 pm at 3:53 pm #1188332
Meno – true. I just don’t know anything about any research/sources on the topic, and it’s possible that it’s true. Of course, then it could also apply to much Jewish music (which the writer might have been including in the term “goyish music”). Loud music has definitely been shown to be bad for one’s hearing.
But you’re right – that is not the ikar reason to not listen to goyish music, in any event!October 31, 2016 4:05 pm at 4:05 pm #1188333
I agree with Meno. A spicy cholent can change your heart rate. An inspiring dvar Torah can change your heart rate. An amazing Simchas Torah hakafos can change your heart rate. Yet, I don’t see any calls to ban those things…October 31, 2016 4:42 pm at 4:42 pm #1188334
Reuven – good point.October 31, 2016 4:47 pm at 4:47 pm #1188335
I once got tinnitus (constant ringing in the ear) that lasted several days, after a Chanukah Chagiga in a Yeshiva. It was the worst when there was no background noise, such as when I was trying to go to sleep. That can seriously drive a person mad.October 31, 2016 8:01 pm at 8:01 pm #1188336Shopping613 🌠Participant
I think this thread should be closed. There are multiple detailed threads on this topic. If anyone wants to really know the answer, it’s been shoved through rigorous nitpicking on a few other threads. I think that is also why so few people answered. Because we saw this 3 months ago, 6 months ago. Just forward such people to the older ones.October 31, 2016 8:52 pm at 8:52 pm #1188337
36 posts in 4 days is plenty. Not really sure why the thread should be closed. People seem to have strong opinions on this topic- so I’d rather hear current thoughts instead of seeing posts on this topic from 4 years ago.October 31, 2016 8:57 pm at 8:57 pm #1188338golferParticipant
Not trying to nitpick Meno, but I would say more like-
Da da da da Dah
Da da da dah da da
Seriously though, I’m always a little taken aback at the welcome we give the Chassan Kallah when they come to dance after the Chuppa and yichud (and pictures of course).
Would you, for example, have the band strike up this tune on Motzei Yom Kippur after an inspiring Ne’ilah?
(I have actually heard some beautiful niggunim sung joyously at that time. None of them sounded like they were stolen from a rock band, or heavy metal, or whatever category the talented members of Europe fall into.)October 31, 2016 9:10 pm at 9:10 pm #1188339Shopping613 🌠Participant
There was a similar thread 3 months ago around…they aren’t that old. People gave real long detailed explanations. I don’t know about others but I wrote a passionate post or a few on it and I have no intention of rewriting it to explain it to him.October 31, 2016 9:21 pm at 9:21 pm #1188340
Shopping – you could post the link if you really want to.October 31, 2016 9:24 pm at 9:24 pm #1188341
Shopping- I respect your decision.
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