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  • #589902

    Many Frum people, men and women alike, are looking into graduate schools. The way it seems to be nowerdays is that most jobs require more then just a BA/BS. THIS IS NOT A POST TO SAY THE PROS/CONS OF ATTENDING COLLEGE AT ALL OR GRAD SCHOOL. PLEASE POST ELSEWHERE.

    Popular fields include OT, nursing, PA, PT, nutrition…. Maybe we can have this post be a place for people with the knowledge about schools share it so that others can learn. If you have been there or are applying now, maybe you can help others who are facing applications and many possibilities for schooling.

    a) how hard is it to get into?

    b) anything to make your application stand out?

    c)specific requirements, especially if unusual

    d)begins in spring/fall/summer term?

    e)frum population: how many frum people are in each class? make exceptions over yomim tovim ect?

    THANKS.

    #647795

    kapusta
    Participant

    havesomeseichel, great thread!

    Being an (almost) high school grad, I was looking into this a lot. I heard this from cery reliable sources:

    Downstate is almost impossible to get into, even with a GPA of 4. (straight As)

    (I heard from more than one reliable source) Nutrition is not worth the schooling, as most facilities only use one nutritionist for all the cases. I have also heard that it is very unlikely for a nutritionist to get more than one or two cases (and even that if they’re lucky) of kids who are underweight.

    Touro will accept anyone from an “under-program” into their own graduate school. SATs are not necessary.

    if you have any specific questions, I’ll try to answer, but I cant guarantee anything. 🙂

    *kapusta*

    #647796

    bozo
    Participant

    i’m applying for ot, if anyone knows of a school that excepts degrees from excelsior

    i would appreciate it.

    i’ve been researching ot schools, downstate is the cheapest

    and the most accommodating about yom tov etc. tons of jewish people there. but like

    kapusta said, its crazy hard to get in. basically you have to do observing hours, and you

    need CPR.

    it varies depending on the school your applying to. temple university has frum girls

    there and i heard they are very nice to them and the girls like it. theres also

    kean-its cheaper and stockton-very hard to get into. there’s seton hall-expensive, christian and i dont know of any jewish girls there. seems like temple and kean

    is the place where a lot of jewish girls are. nyu is expensive and have to make

    everything up when you miss is bec of yom tov. you have to travel but it doesnt sound

    too difficult to get in.

    one thing i heard from ppl in pt graduate schools is that its horrible

    and there’s a lot of issues with tznius and the dress code you have to wear

    for the exercises. even touro is like this. they have a little michitzah for

    the two frum girls but everyone can still see if they walk a few steps over.

    #647797

    anonymisss
    Participant

    Kean doesn’t like frum females. Temple, on the other hand, is very nice to them, I know people there. PT does have tznius issues, besides for being a very, very challenging program. Do your research before you decide that you want to do PT.

    ~a the real one~

    #647798

    oomis
    Participant

    First thing, when applying to grad school, PROOFREAD your submission. Don’t have spelling or grammatical errors, because it will reflect poorly on you. Something that makes your application stand out, is the inclusion of documented information regarding any service you may have given your community. My son was accepted to several grad schools, including Columbia, and in each case the person who interviewed him commented on his extensive history of volunteerism with the disabled, developmentally delayed, and elderly populations. Another applicant may have a higher GPA than you, but if you have extra-curricular involvement in something related to your field of study, it looks impressive to the grad school, and could possibly tip the scales in your favor over another qualified candidate.

    I am not certain what Bozo means, regarding Tznius issues. My daughter is in Touro Grad School for OT, and has had no problems with that. As far as yom tov is concerned, well you cannot expect a grad school to care that you are a frum Jew. If you do care about this issue (as do we all), then you probably should go to a grad school under Jewish auspices. Touro does not have classes on Yom Tov (they might on chol hamoed, though).

    #647799

    the.nurse
    Member

    i just graduated from Beth Israel nursing school. all i can say is that its a great school and there are a ton of frum girls here. they are not always so accomodating with yomim tovim (they only hold of rosh hashana and yom kippur) but they always understand, since there are enough of us that take off [i.e. you wont get penalized for taking off]. they also make a big effort to provide us with sealed kosher food at all functions.

    #647800

    not sure what I want to do… something in science…maybe PT or PA or something like that.

    so has anyone here made it into any programs? I had heard about the mechitza- does that mean that the women are forced to wear untzinyus clothing and the men can see them or does it mean that the men can see the women while sitting in class (and the women can see wear what they want in class).

    Where is temple? kean?

    uniforms: does that mean you must wear it exactly or can you alter it at a dressmaker or with your sewing machine to make it better? sometimes they have an option of short skirts or pants and i know someone who was going for nursing who bought two of the short skirts and made 1 longer one….

    #647801

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    I am in graduate school now. I attend a private university and am working towards an MBA degree.

    a) how hard is it to get into?

    To get into a graduate business school, you need to take the GMAT test. The GMAT is a moderately difficult exam consisting of three parts — English, Math and Writing.

    The hardest part for me were the data sufficiency questions. This is a type of question where they give you a math problem and two pieces of information. Rather than solving the problem, you have to determine if the problem can be solved with either of the pieces of info alone, both of them, or that even with both pieces of info the problem cannot be solved.

    Since the recession started, the number of applications to B-Schools has gone up dramatically all over the country, so it is harder to get in. Yet, if you get a really good grade on the GMAT, you will find most schools willing to take you in.

    b) anything to make your application stand out?

    Just make sure you have all your ducks in a row. Resume, recommendations, transcript, GMAT score, etc.

    c)specific requirements, especially if unusual

    See above.

    d)begins in spring/fall/summer term?

    Most business schools will allow you to start at any point. I started in the Spring semester.

    e)frum population: how many frum people are in each class? make exceptions over yomim tovim ect?

    My school has a small (but noticeable) frum population. I have had Yom Tov exam situations, but so far every teacher has been respectful, understand and was willing to make accommodations for me to take the exam at another time.

    If you have any specific questions about b-schools, feel free to post here or drop me an email.

    The Wolf

    #647802

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    I should also point out that my wife is in a grad program as well. She’s currently going for a degree in Speech Pathology. There are many frum women in her program.

    The Wolf

    #647803

    bozo
    Participant

    oomis-about tznius issues, the problem is by PT, OT doesnt have those problems.

    havesomeseichel-temple is in philli-somewhere there an hour and a half away.kean is in nj. with PT you have to wear exercise clothes with no option of being tznius. men and woman are mixed. the two girls in touro for PT have a michitzah but any guy can walk over and look. some of the horrible stuff they got out of doing, but the atmosphere is horribe. by nursing i think there are options, you could wear a skirt.

    #647804

    gourmet
    Member

    I just got into grad school, and will be starting in the fall (for reasons of anonymity, I will not say which program, b/c I’m in a very specific one).

    For your questions:

    A. Since most people in this country do not go for advanced degrees, youare, to begin with, up against tougher, more ambitious competition. Additionally, at least for now, it will be even harder than usual. The past academic year has seen a very steep increase in the amount of applications. Due to the economy, many people who just graduated college are looking to delay their entry into a bad job market, and many people who are already in the workforce are looking to go for advanced degrees in order to hold onto their jobs, or make themselves look more attractive to potential employers in case they lose their jobs. At least as long as the crisis lasts, it is going to be more difficult to get into grad school.

    B. and C. In addition to the obvious, such as college grades and test scores (GRE for most programs, GMAT for business; not all programs require standardized testing), you will also have to write essays, show samples of previous work (this usually applies to creative programs- art, music, creative writing, etc, but you should still check with wherever you’re applying for specifics), possibly an interview, and you should have some internships related to your field under your belt. These are the things that will make you stand out beyond the numbers.

    D. Most programs let you start whenever you want, and most have summers available. You would have to check with each program though; rules vary, and I know that some are fall start only.

    E. As far as Jewish life goes, you can’t go wrong with CUNY. In addition to being cheaper than most places, there are tons of frum Jews in all of the schools, but most especially in Queens, Brooklyn, Baruch, and Hunter. CUNY gives off for Rosh HaShana and Yom Kippur, also they almost always set spring break to coincide with Pesach (except for when Pesach comes out the end of April). Shavuos is almost never a problem, because the semester is usually over by then (unless it comes out mid-May, and even then, it’s usually during finals, and they’ll let you reschedule an exam if it conflicts). Sukkos is an issue, you’ll have to miss class on Yontif, but the professors understand. Many of them are frum themselves, in which case you won’t miss class at all.

    I hope you can find this information helpful.

    Also, does anyone know anything about psychology programs (in the NY area) specifically for marital/family therapy? I have a relative who is looking into that, and this seems like a good forum for putting out the question.

    #647805

    I never heard about the exercise clothes thing in PT schools…. is that for the classes too or just when on rotation? is that only in touro’s?

    Is there any difference in CUNY (city university of NY) vs SUNY (state university of NY)? obviously I am not a lifelong NYer like most of you are. I mean in reference to how good a school it is/reputation.

    #647806

    about possible psychology programs, there are sites that you can look up different schools in your area

    http://www.allpsychologyschools.com/featured/marriage-and-family-counseling/

    gradschool.com

    or google “family therapy graduate schools” and add in the state you live in. be careful about online schools- may not be worth much.

    #647807

    jphone
    Member

    Its been quite some time since ive been in a classroom as a student 🙂

    I can say though, those in NYC looking for a good MBA program need not look any farther than Baruch.

    #647808

    gourmet
    Member

    CUNY schools receive their funding from New York City while SUNY schools receive funding from New York State. Other than that, and in terms of transferring to a different school within the system, the schools in each system have little to do with each other. For instance, Binghamton is an excellent school and I believe it’s the top SUNY; Stonybrook is also up there, and has particularly strong science programs. Oswego and Cortland are known “party schools”, but they are also part of the SUNY system.

    Within CUNY, Queens, Hunter and Baruch are the top schools; Queens has very strong sciences, Hunter has excellent humanities, and Baruch is known for excellence in business and accounting type fields. Both Queens and Hunter also have excellent teacher education and social work programs, and I believe Brooklyn is good for that as well. As with SUNY, there are CUNY schools that do not have such excellent reputations, such as York or Queensboro (not to be confused with Queens). The top CUNY schools are as good as the top SUNY schools; and the worst SUNYs are as bad as the worst CUNYs, so state vs city makes no difference.

    For both systems, you have to look into each individual school, and within each school, look into the department, as each of these schools has certain departments in which they excel more than others.

    Other thing to keep in mind (at least if money is a factor for you)is that the CUNY schools are less than half the price of the SUNY schools. Either way, the most important thing is to do your research and go for the program that will best suit your needs.

    #647809

    is it better to bulk up on extra curricular activities or get a perfect 4.0? i am balancing the two but want to know if anyone knows how schools think about them. i know grades are important but if we have a normal GPA for the field should we do extra curricular or sweat to get a drop higher? might not get any higher and will get the resume to prove the effort.

    #647810

    kapusta- i was reading your original post. you said that SATs are not necessary. they are for the graduate programs (or GREs) and if you take them before you enter touro undergrad and get decent score you have a chance for really nice scholarships for their undergrad program! it is worth it and cant hurt. i know if you take them within 5 years of entering some of their grad programs, they use that instead of the GREs! and SATs (i was told) are easier then the GRE.

    #647811

    anon for this
    Participant

    Regarding the difficulty of the GREs vs the SATs, I was told that the GRE verbal section is more difficult than the verbal SAT section, while the GRE math section is easier than the corresponding SAT section. I did not need the GRE to enter grad school, because I attended the same college for undergrad & grad, but took them in order to qualify for a scholarship I wanted. I prepared for the GRE by studying test preparation books so I would know what type of questions to expect. B”H I did well & did receive the scholarship I wanted, so that worked well for me.

    #647812

    kapusta
    Participant

    havesomeseichel, SATs are preffereable (especially for financial aid) but I heard they are not necessary in Touro. (I heard from a reliable source, but I could be wrong)

    *kapusta*

    #647813

    for grad schools they are required (or GRE) but not for undergrad. read my post. for big time scholarships they are necessary for the undergrad program (and of course high scores… 600/650 and up)

    #647814

    kapusta
    Participant

    havesomeseichel, much to late for that, I will try tomorrow to read and understand bl”n.

    *kapusta*

    #647815

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    FWIW, I never took the SAT exam and got into grad school without a problem.

    The Wolf

    #647816

    SJSinNYC
    Member

    My husband is currently enrolled in an engineering masters at Steven’s Institute. Its a mid-rate college but not cheap (his company is paying). They also have a lot of on-line classes so you don’t have to commute. They are right near the holland tunnel.

    The nice thing about the on-line classes at Stevens is that they are regular graduate classes. It isn’t a scammy type on-line system. Your degree is the same as if you attended classes on campus. He is maximizing on those.

    Stevens is more of the math/science oriented program, and they also have project management type stuff.

    Polytechnic University (now connected to NYU) recently started an MBA program. Not cheap either, but much easier to get into. Then again, its not a top tier in the slightest.

    #647817

    bozo
    Participant

    you need SAT to get into grad school or to get scholarships and loans for grad

    school?

    #647818

    oomis
    Participant

    is it better to bulk up on extra curricular activities or get a perfect 4.0? i am balancing the two but want to know if anyone knows how schools think about them. i know grades are important but if we have a normal GPA for the field should we do extra curricular or sweat to get a drop higher? might not get any higher and will get the resume to prove the effort.

    My personal opinion and observation is that the extra-curriculars look more impressive on a resume than a 4.0 GPA, assuming the GPA is not substantially lower. Grades are not necesssarily the best reflection of a person’s ability – only of his or her ability to memorize or learn information. Talent and commitment to doing a good job, are far more indicative of someone’s potential for success. I know geniuses who are still foundering all their lives. They never got a grade under an A+, but neither did many of them develop the skills or personality to do the type of job that many grad schools are seeking for their students. If I were a person in charge of making decisions of acceptance and had only one spot open, I would be far more interested in the Sociology or Psychology major who actually spent time working with people in crisis, than those who had the highest GREs or SATs, but never gave of themselves to their community because they were so busy getting all 4.0s.

    #647819

    do school clubs/organizations count as much as volunteering? to use your example, does being part of a psych club show anything?

    #647820

    anonymisss
    Participant

    havesomeseichel, everything counts. Colleges want to see who you are. Anything you do helps them get to know you. Good grades are super-important. A knockout personal statement is the only way that they can know what kind of person you are. Even with top grades, your personal statement can make or break the admission decision.

    Good luck!

    ~a the real one~

    #647821

    Pashuteh Yid
    Member

    Just my own two cents. Choose your area very carefully, and do something you love. Aim very high. Don’t just go to be yotzei zein. I know many people who majored in psychology or Jewish studies or Jewish history who cannot find jobs. These are interesting fields, but do not have very many job prospects. Unless you really are interested in becoming a psychologist and possibly getting a Ph.D. in the field, I don’t think it is wise to choose a major just because your friend told you it is interesting and popular and not too hard. You really need to ask yourself what kind of skills you will have after you finish and what your future plans are.

    As far as business and accounting, I think the current matzav is very tough. Many of these types have been laid off. I don’t know what the near term will be for these fields.

    My own bias is science and engineering. While it is hard now for these as well, but if you look at the sites Science Careers or Nature Jobs, there are many opportunities. There is also a site called Phds.org. Many business and financial companies want people trained in science and math, in addition to the more traditional academic and research and engineering careers that can be pursued with this training.

    Another advantage is that if you can develop a new chiddush, you can start your own company and manufacture your product. (Not easy and requires much work and salesmanship to venture capitalists, but can be done.) On the other hand, the best businessman in the world needs a product to sell, and without that it is difficult to make money.

    Supposedly Bill Gates was always complaining about the shortage of trained engineers in the US and wanted the Govt to relax immigration laws to import more foreign workers. (That may have changed since the economy went bad.) But note also that there are many govt defense jobs that can only be done by US citizens, so you have an advantage there over the many foreigners with technical training.

    Anyway, you should do what you like and use your particular talents, but don’t go for the easy way out, whatever you choose.

    #647822

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    you need SAT to get into grad school or to get scholarships and loans for grad

    school?

    Bozo,

    FWIW, I’m in grad school, getting both a scholarship and loans and I never took the SAT. But then again, I’m in business school where the main testing criteria is the GMAT test. Other grad schools may have other criteria.

    The Wolf

    #647823

    bozo
    Participant

    wolf-do you know about OT?

    #647824

    Bozo, i know the question is directed to wolf, but maybe I can help. I do know people going into OT and other health science fields. What exactly are you asking? OT, or occupational therapy, is a type of therapy that helps people gain or regain fine motor skills and coordination. They can work in rehab, hospitals, early intervention ect helping people after accidents, injuries, surgery, illness, age or people who due to various other reasons do not have certain skills (writing, using scissors ect).

    There are many grad schools who offer a degree in OT and some require a BA to enter (SUNY downstate, i believe) and some (touro) require only certain prerequisites such as Biology, A+P (anatomy and physiology), maybe chemistry or physics, some psychs,english and math ect.

    it is a popular field and depending on where you live it might be in demand. you need to want to help people and like science to get through the schooling. they make less then PT, PA ect, in case you were wondering, but requires less schooling especially if you do the prerequisite option.

    hope this helps and if you have any more questions, ask!

    #647825

    bozo
    Participant

    havesomeseichel-my question was do you need SAT to get into grad

    school or to get scholarships in grad school?

    #647826

    most grad schools require a specific test or the GRE. ex: MCATs, GMATs ect. some of touro’s allow you to use the SAT within 5 years of taking it (many took it in high school so they dont want to stucy and take another test).

    for touro undergrad, at least flatbush campus, does not require the SAT to enter (most colleges do require it) but if you do take it and do well enough you can get a really nice scholarship.

    #647827

    oomis
    Participant

    FTR, Touro required MORE than other OT schools like Downstate. My daughter is in Touro and her friend is in Downstate. They both did the same undergrad course of study, but when my daughter was accepted to Touro, she discovered that in spite of the fact that she had completed the traditional requirements,she had to take one more course in a science in order to meet Touro’s reuirements (it might have been a specific bio course)that was NOT required by the other school.

    #647828

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    wolf-do you know about OT?

    Not directly. However, I have a very close relative who became an OT here in New York. If you want to ask some questions, I’ll be more than happy to pass them along and bring you back some answers.

    The Wolf

    #647829

    oomis- but touro does not require a BA while downstate does. every school has different requirements to enter. For OT, some require chem 1, some physics 1 and some both. double check before applying!!!

    #647830

    oomis
    Participant

    Touro ABSOLUTELY required my daughter to have a BA, and though she already had it, they required a bio or anatomy course that is not required by any other OT grad school. we checked. Twice. I was so upset that after all the money we paid out for tuition that my daughter unknowingly had one more requirement. One three credit course is a fortune, and would have been “free” had she taken it that last semester, because she only needed 12 credits (as per her College advisor, in the final cheshbon before graduation)to graduate, and this would have brought it to 15, which costs the same as 12.

    #647831

    bozo
    Participant

    wolf-can you ask this person that you know if to get into grad school for

    OT do you need any tests-SAT etc? (grad schools like temple, downstate, kean)

    thanks so much!

    #647832

    oomis- a problem that touro has is the “advisement center”. This is not to say that they do not try hard- they do but they are just not kept in the loop by some of the staff. It is nothing bad about them, just bad about bureaucracy that happens in any institution.the best bet when you’re down to the last line is to ask others and do the research yourself. they do have “pre grad school” advisement forms that list some of the common courses needed by different schools. I made a spread-sheet comparing different schools: when they start, cost, what courses they require ect. I have made course selection mistakes but this chart has helped me figure these things out and have helped in decision making.

    #647833

    Bozo- for the most accurate and up to date info (schools change requirements yearly) look up the school’s website.

    #647834

    I just check the website for touro’s OT program….

    http://www.touro.edu/shs/ot/Otindex.asp

    Admission Requirements

    * A minimum of 60 credits in Liberal Arts and Sciences with a minimum grade point average of 2.8 is required. Prerequisites include:

    o 8 credits of Biology * with Lab

    o 4 credits of Chemistry*, Physics** or additional Biology*, (each with laboratories)

    o 9 credits of Psychology: General Psychology, Human Growth & Development, and Abnormal Psychology

    o 6 credits of English Composition or Composition & Literature

    o 3 credits of College Mathematics

    o 3 credits of Statistics

    o 3 credits of Sociology

    o 24 additional credits of Social Sciences, Arts and Humanities

    * Designed for science major

    ** Preferred

    All prerequisite Liberal Arts and Sciences must be completed with “C” or better.

    * Official SAT, ACT, or GRE scores

    * TOEFL scores (if applicable)

    * Current CPR Certification

    * 100 hours of volunteer work under the supervision of a licensed Occupational Therapist.

    * Two letters of recommendation; one from a licensed occupational therapist, one from a professional or academic source.

    * Interview and on-site essay for qualified applicants

    HOPE THIS HELPS!

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