Home › Forums › Controversial Topics › Grammar Is Making a Comeback
- This topic has 72 replies, 18 voices, and was last updated 11 years, 9 months ago by haifagirl.
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February 26, 2013 6:41 am at 6:41 am #608356haifagirlParticipant
I just read a wonderful article about what is happening in one high school. You can google “Grammarians in Hoodies” to read the entire article. Here is a wonderful excerpt:
“‘In the work force, grammar will be as important as this training of analyzing literature,’ says Ms. Bassett. ‘[These students] are not going to be paid in 20 years for analyzing literature.
“Her colleagues list several benefits that come from grammar instruction: clear cover letters, stronger writing skills, and an easier understanding of a foreign language, to name a few. If there is a bias toward one ‘correct’ way of speaking, well, they want their students to learn it.”
February 26, 2013 6:43 am at 6:43 am #934542wanderingchanaParticipant**Happy Dance**
February 26, 2013 8:21 am at 8:21 am #934543ToiParticipantdont worry, ill be waiting with a 12-gauge to make sure it doesnt.
February 26, 2013 8:04 pm at 8:04 pm #934544ari-freeParticipantI’d much rather see more time spent on other things, such as math. Asians may not have the best English grammar but that’s not stopping them from taking over.
February 26, 2013 8:34 pm at 8:34 pm #934545Yserbius123ParticipantI don’t dislike grammar due to it’s difficulty. I dislike grammar because in school it was the most boring subject out there. Math made sense. Spelling was important. Grammar was simply arbitrary and had tons of nonsensical rules and exceptions with complicated names for everything. My favorite game to play when someone was asking grammar questions was to ask them to use a participial as a dangling modifier in a sentence. Maybe one out of twenty even knew what that meant. Not to mention the fact that my grammar teachers were just plain awful. I remember Mr. G. from eighth grade who used to make us sit down with our grammar books for an hour straight every week and just “do the work”. Never learned a thing from that class (except for the fact that Mr. G. has high blood pressure and is prone to outbursts when he finds out that everyone who wasn’t Yitzi L. basically just shmoozed the entire hour every week for months in a row and that Rabbi Yaakov Horowitz of Project YES is actually a very kind and understanding person and will actually be able to convince the class to apologize to the teacher even when it’s obvious how wrong he was)
February 26, 2013 9:01 pm at 9:01 pm #934546SecularFrummyMemberGrammar in one’s native language should not be a very difficult subject in school. Sure, there are names of grammatical concepts, (prepositions, interjections, etc) but if proper reading and speaking skills are developed, the proper following of grammar rules should follow almost naturally.
February 27, 2013 8:54 pm at 8:54 pm #934547haifagirlParticipantSpeaking of grammar, here’s a quick tip.
Headline from YWN:
How would you answer that question?
a) He is playing he.
b) He is playing him.
c) Him is playing him.
d) Him is playing he.
It should be obvious that the correct answer is b). Now, we just replace “he” with “who” and “him” with “whom.” Therefore, the question should have been: Who is Playing Whom?
February 27, 2013 9:03 pm at 9:03 pm #934548takahmamashParticipantApplause for Haifagirl.
February 27, 2013 9:15 pm at 9:15 pm #934549TheGoqParticipantYou know what haifagirl you are correct everyone should use proper grammar all the time, they should also exercise daily and eat all their vegetables but sometimes its okay not to do everything that is proper, we are after all human we are not perfect I don’t know why it is so hard for you to accept that not everyone is as concerned about this as you are.
Your constant criticism of every single grammar error is very tiring, you should be a bit more tolerant of those who are not as perfectly proper as you are.
February 27, 2013 10:00 pm at 10:00 pm #934550☕ DaasYochid ☕ParticipantI’m going to defend Haifagirl now, because I’ve seen less of her corrections than previously, and this was about a news article, not directly at a poster.
(Yes, I know, fewer. 🙂 )
February 27, 2013 10:03 pm at 10:03 pm #934551ToiParticipantim actually quite happy with her, shes never here anymore.
February 27, 2013 10:04 pm at 10:04 pm #934552shnitzyMemberThe intolerant issue I definitely hear, but if haifagirl would like to scrutinize her OWN posts 50 billion times before entering, I definitely don’t see a need to stop her. Although, it is a rather ridiculous waste of time.
February 27, 2013 10:10 pm at 10:10 pm #934553haifagirlParticipantYou’re right. I’m not here very often. Why should I be? Since I see no reason to struggle to read incomprehensible posts, I don’t other to read most of them. If people wanted me to know what they were thinking, they would communicate it clearly. Obviously what they have to say isn’t important enough to them that they want other people to read it.
February 27, 2013 10:13 pm at 10:13 pm #934554☕ DaasYochid ☕ParticipantC’mon, guys, it’s one thing to criticize her when she interrupts a discussion by scolding someone for poor grammar, but in this context, the attacks are unwarranted .
February 27, 2013 10:13 pm at 10:13 pm #934555OneOfManyParticipantthere is a typo in the OP
February 27, 2013 10:22 pm at 10:22 pm #934556haifagirlParticipantYou’re right. I don’t know how that zero got in there. I apologize.
(When one makes a mistake it never hurts to apologize. It sure beats criticizing the one who pointed it out.)
February 27, 2013 10:27 pm at 10:27 pm #934557☕ DaasYochid ☕ParticipantIn your previous post, you omitted the “b” from “bother”.
You might still have time to fix it.
Edit: Good, you did have time.
February 27, 2013 10:38 pm at 10:38 pm #934558wanderingchanaParticipantDY +1
HG – Thanks for the ‘replacing him with whom’ tip. I don’t think I’ve ever gotten that right.
February 27, 2013 10:40 pm at 10:40 pm #934559haifagirlParticipantIn your previous post, you omitted the “b” from “bother”.
You might still have time to fix it.
Edit: Good, you did have time.
Nope. Some kindly mod must have done it. I dropped my keyboard once too often and the “b” and the space bar don’t work so well. Sometimes I don’t notice.
February 27, 2013 10:42 pm at 10:42 pm #934560haifagirlParticipantHG – Thanks for the ‘replacing him with whom’ tip. I don’t think I’ve ever gotten that right.
You’re welcome. I find it much easier to use that tip than to try and explain the difference between subject and object pronouns.
February 27, 2013 10:53 pm at 10:53 pm #934561wanderingchanaParticipantSo when you see ‘to whom it may concern’, does that really mean ‘to him/her who it may concern?’ yikes…
February 27, 2013 10:53 pm at 10:53 pm #934562SpiderJerusalemParticipantOn the treife internet, bad grammar exposes your lack of education and makes you sound like an idiot in general. It’s very hard to take someone seriously who can barely spell or use grammar.
February 27, 2013 11:08 pm at 11:08 pm #934563haifagirlParticipantOn the treife internet, bad grammar exposes your lack of education and makes you sound like an idiot in general. It’s very hard to take someone seriously who can barely spell or use grammar.
Excellent point. Here’s another excerpt from that article:
“His comment catches the attention of Ms. Bassett, who is making rounds to each cluster of students. ‘David,’ she says, ‘the life lesson here is that bad grammar is bad PR. You guys remember that.'”
February 28, 2013 3:24 am at 3:24 am #934565ari-freeParticipantI talk to people from all over the world on the web. The worst thing you can be is a “grammar Nazi” because you can’t expect everyone to be native English speakers.
February 28, 2013 3:33 am at 3:33 am #934566wanderingchanaParticipantGodwin’s Law!
February 28, 2013 4:18 am at 4:18 am #934567☕ DaasYochid ☕ParticipantWC,
Not applicable here; “Grammar Nazi”, as offensive as it may be, is a recognized expression.
February 28, 2013 7:08 am at 7:08 am #934568yehudayonaParticipantThe reason grammar as taught in school is so boring is that it’s usually taught as a series of inscrutable rules. If you’re interested in a more accessible method, check out Arthur Whimbey’s prototype-construction approach.
February 28, 2013 7:50 am at 7:50 am #934569haifagirlParticipantThe worst thing you can be is a “grammar Nazi” because you can’t expect everyone to be native English speakers.
Nobody expects everyone to be native English speakers. However, I don’t believe there is anything wrong with expecting native English speakers to communicate in English.
February 28, 2013 1:30 pm at 1:30 pm #934570squeakParticipantSo that gets me off the hook, at least.
February 28, 2013 5:13 pm at 5:13 pm #934571☕ DaasYochid ☕ParticipantBy definition, it gets anyone who writes as they speak off the hook.
February 28, 2013 8:40 pm at 8:40 pm #934572shnitzyMemberWell said.
March 1, 2013 1:40 am at 1:40 am #934573Torah613TorahParticipantI agree that clear communication is very important.
March 1, 2013 3:21 am at 3:21 am #934574🍫Syag LchochmaParticipantMany people use impeccable grammar but still don’t communicate.
It’s interesting (tangential thought alert), I work with an Autistic boy whose language is very poor. Mostly quotes from videos and an occasional yes/no of his own. But he can complete reams of grammar sheets where he has to re-write sentences correctly, choose appropriate tenses, convert singular to plural based on context of the sentence. It is really amazing.
March 1, 2013 3:33 am at 3:33 am #934575OneOfManyParticipantMany people use impeccable grammar but still don’t communicate.
thisthisthis
March 1, 2013 8:46 am at 8:46 am #934576haifagirlParticipantMany people use impeccable grammar but still don’t communicate.
Absolutely true. But is the converse true? Can one really communicate without grammar?
March 1, 2013 10:38 am at 10:38 am #934577just my hapenceParticipantSyag – True but efshar l’kayem shneihem.
March 1, 2013 3:18 pm at 3:18 pm #934578☕ DaasYochid ☕ParticipantHaifa, obviously, some grammar is necessary for communication, but not nearly to the degree that you insist upon. Almost every correction I’ve seen you make was on a comprehensible post or article.
March 1, 2013 3:24 pm at 3:24 pm #934579🍫Syag LchochmaParticipantHonestly, I have learned over the years that one can communicate without grammar and even without language. It is all in the ‘hands’ of the listener. We develop our ability to hear and listen based on many things, primarily, how well we can work through the static. For you, static is poor grammar and it effects your ability to hear. For me, static is in the tone. Rude and haughty tones make it difficult for me to hear. The texting mode is also static for me and I just avoid it altogether. Others can handle the grammar mistakes and the tone, but their static is about how long the sentences are or how often the person says, “ya know?” etc.
Communication means giving over from one to another. It is put out there. The ability to receive/decipher it is in the power of the receiver. Whether the giver has the means or interest to resend lost messages is another thing to add to the pot, but as far as your original question is concerned, yes, one can communicate without grammar, but not all of us our prepared to received those messages.
March 1, 2013 4:25 pm at 4:25 pm #934580wanderingchanaParticipant*are
😉
(Sorry!! It’s like scratching an itch!!)
March 1, 2013 4:47 pm at 4:47 pm #934581🍫Syag LchochmaParticipantIf that’s all you got out of that post than I, too, am sorry.
😉
March 1, 2013 5:44 pm at 5:44 pm #934582shnitzyMemberhaifagirl, we have found you a friend…her name is wanderingchana. Go have a chat about catching grammar booboos :P.
March 1, 2013 8:48 pm at 8:48 pm #934583ari-freeParticipantAlright, alright. I checked out the English Page site, noticed that my grammar needs work and am now working on my verb tenses.
“The mural is going to have been being painted by the famous artist for over six months by the time it is finished.”
ugh…
March 1, 2013 9:03 pm at 9:03 pm #934584shnitzyMemberI’ll be POLITE and POLITELY say that perhaps it needs a bit of work.
March 1, 2013 9:05 pm at 9:05 pm #934585ari-freeParticipantVery good.
March 1, 2013 9:14 pm at 9:14 pm #934586shnitzyMemberI try.
March 1, 2013 9:19 pm at 9:19 pm #934587ari-freeParticipantWho said anything about a comma? 🙂
March 1, 2013 9:33 pm at 9:33 pm #934588shnitzyMemberNobody did.
Are you sure you’re not feeling woozy? You’re a bit delusional at the moment.
Yes, Ari-free,two can play the same game.
(And if this goes on any further, our entire conversation will soon be erased. That could get interesting. It could also get quite repetitive.)
March 3, 2013 4:48 pm at 4:48 pm #934589🍫Syag LchochmaParticipantI thought I had written an very nice post that deserved more than just a self serving grammar correction. It just reinforces the impression I sometimes have that everyone here likes to talk, but very few bother to listen.
March 3, 2013 7:18 pm at 7:18 pm #934590wanderingchanaParticipantSelf-serving, no; more like, diversionary in the traditional style of the CR.
Haifagirl knows that I am a fan of correct grammar, spelling, etc., but I think it makes her slightly uncomfortable. LOL…
March 3, 2013 7:38 pm at 7:38 pm #934591shnitzyMemberHmmmm. Is that because only one of you is polite? Does that make her nervous? (Not that I’m specifying :P) Go make friends! It’s up to you.
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