Grape Juice Light

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  • #1706462

    anonymous
    Participant

    There is a newish product on the market called Grape Juice light. O can’t figure out why anybody would actually buy watered down grape juice. It would be a lot cheaper to just buy regular grape juice and add water yourself.

    However, what many might not realize, this product is not considered grape juice according to most poskim.

    Reb Shlomo Zalman Auerbach ztl rules that watered down grape juice becomes shehakol, and can not be used for Kiddush or the four kosos on Pesach. Reb Shmuel Kaminetzky shlita paskens the same way.

    It seems that many people are buying this unaware that it cannot be used for it’s intended pupose according to most poskim.

    #1706735

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    Did you consider the possibility that maybe “Grape Juice Light” is not just watered down grape juice and perhaps that’s why people use it instead of watering down grape juice?

    #1706729

    Geordie613
    Participant

    If you are referring to Kedem Light Grape Juice, there is a hechsher on the bottle from The Rav of Zehelem and The Union of Orthodox Jewish Congregations of America (Is that the OU?) and states, “Kosher lePesach for Kiddush and the Arba Kosos”.
    I highly doubt that this is simply watered down Grape Juice, and would be happy to hear what the two Kashrus authorities mentioned above have to say.

    #1706697

    Can you define most poskim? You only named 2.

    #1706754

    chymee
    Participant

    The above Poskim are good enough for me

    #1706812

    rational
    Participant

    It doesn’t sound like you know what the company means when it uses the word “light”. Maybe it means less sugar and fewer calories. Or something else entirely. To jump to the conclusion that it means the addition of water is unsubstantiated and unfair.

    To assume the watered-down theory and then slide seamlessly into what the poskim think about it is borderline deception.

    #1706832

    DaMoshe
    Participant

    R’ Belsky zt”l wrote a teshuva where he says it can be used. It’s not just watered down Grape Juice.
    It is extremely useful for diabetics, as it contains significantly less sugar than most other products. I know many who use this exclusively for kiddush and arba kosos.

    #1706822

    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Light grape juice is amazing, I use it every week for kiddush and havdalah

    #1706840

    anonymous
    Participant

    Light Grape Juice has added water. That is the main difference between that and regular Grape Juice. I am not jumping to conclusions. I did my research. And I know that many poskim hold it is shehakol. I mentioned the two which I recently saw printed.

    OU does write it is good for Kiddush, but it is not so simple.

    And by the way, OU holds Grape Juice from 100% concentrate is also good for Kiddsuh, while many disagree.

    Someone mentioned a Teshuva from Rabbi Belsky. Is there an address for that? I’d love to see it inside.

    My point is that many people would not use this if they knew Reb Shlomo Zalman ztl and Reb Shmuel shlita hold it’s not considered yayin.

    #1706889

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    My LOR uses it for Kiddush on Shabbos.

    #1706962

    ChadGadya
    Participant

    I always thought that the reason bottled grape juice tastes much sweeter than freshly squeezed grapes is because they add concentrated grape juice (this rather than sugar so that they can still call it 100% grape). Can anyone here who knows more about it either confirm or deny this? If it is true then perhaps light grape juice is just plain juice without the added concentrate. (Anyone who has eaten a cupful of fresh grapes can immediately feel that it is much lighter and less sweet than a cupful of regular grape juice.)

    #1707519

    anonymous
    Participant

    iacisrmma, does your LOR realize there is added water? I spoke to a few LOR’s recently who were unaware there is added water, and one who was not even aware major Poskim hills it changes the status of the Grape Juice. (When I showed them, they agreed with me)

    And ChadGadya, both regular Grape Juice and Grape Juice light has some concentrate added to them in order to insure a consistent flavor.

    The Light version has a significant amount of water added besides the concentrate.

    Kedem makes a version of 100% juice with no concentrate added. It’s very expensive though.

    #1707543

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    Chad:
    The light grape juice of the most popular brand has grape concentrate and water in the ingredients, as does the non-light version. I assume the ratios are just different for the light variant. The shittah that water + concentrate brands are not real gefen might be a real thing, but the differentiation between the light and non-light would be arbitrary in this regard. If one holds concentrate-based juice is shehakol, then you would say shehakol on both.

    #1707550

    shebbesonian
    Participant

    “All OU grape juice that has printed on the bottles “Kosher for Kiddush” contains at least 51% single strength grape juice, and everyone would agree the bracha is Borei pri hagafen”

    oukosher.org/halacha-yomis/may-one-use-grape-juice-kiddush/

    #1707582

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    anonymous”: yes my LOR is well aware of the ingredient list and based on his research has concluded that on shabbos one can use it for kiddush.

    #1707581

    ny100k
    Participant

    Kedem makes 3 versions.
    1. The glass bottles of grape juice is 100% juice.
    2. The plastic bottles include concentrate but no water.
    3. Light, which contains concentrate and water.

    There are various opinions as to whether adding water invalidates it for kiddush and/or changes its brocho.

    Everyone should as their rabbi as to how to rule. On the bottle itself are two authorities who rule it’s ok.

    #1707624

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    The very popular kosher grape juice brand which shall remain nameless so the thread doesn’t close has multiple types of the glass bottle. There’s the organic glass bottle (which I assume is the 100% real juice you’re talking about; it leaves a purply powder residue), and the non-organic. Not sure if the non-organic glass ones have concentrate.

    How can something have concentrate without water to balance it out? That would just end up being pretty much syrup. Maybe they aren’t required to list water as its own ingredient up to a certain point?

    #1710157

    Freddyfish
    Participant

    Kedem light grape juice used to be 65% juice they just recently raised it to 70% juice to make it more than 2/3 I don’t see why any poskim would have an issue with it now!!!!!

    #1710154

    Jersey Jew
    Participant

    ny100k
    I assure you that you have no idea what you are talking about!

    1. HA!
    2. HAHA!
    3. HAHAHA!

    #1710152

    Jersey Jew
    Participant

    ChadGadya
    Go back to sheep! The bottled version tastes better than the garbage you would make at home because wine/juice grapes are totally different than table grapes! They dont have to add any Concentrate to it however Kedem might add some only to keep the flavor profile as grape juice tastes slightly different every year and even from vine to vine.

    #1710170

    anonymous
    Participant

    Freddyfish,

    I am not sure where you got your numbers from, or if they are accurate. But that does not really matter.
    Reb Shlomo Zalman zt”l holds the din of mezigah does not apply to grape juice at all, and almost any amount of water would disqualify it from being considered wine. Reb Shmuel shlita paskens the same.

    Neville ChaimBerlin,

    The way I understand it is that they add very little concentrate to the juice. Just enough to balance out the taste. They want the grape juice to have a uniform taste which is difficult with a pure juice.

    Some of the glass bottles (I believe the bigger ones) are 100% juice, with no added concentrate. The bottles are labeled clearly.

    #1710183

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Wine grapes can be eaten fresh.

    #1710173

    Joseph
    Participant

    Why buy the Light version when you can buy the real version for the same price and add water, getting more grape juice for the same money?

    #1710191

    Freddyfish
    Participant

    Someone told me they heard that kedem said that light grape juice is actually a different grape not just watered down. Idk if that’s true I find it hard to believe!!!

    #1710281

    Freddyfish
    Participant

    Anonymous I got my numbers from the back of the bottle weve been using it on shabbos for years

    #1710563

    anonymous
    Participant

    BTW, Add Reb Elyashiv to the list. He also says one may nit add any water to Garpe Juice

    #1710586

    takahmamash
    Participant

    Funny thing is, at Osher Ad the big plastic bottles of Kedem are cheaper than the Israeli grape juice, so that is what we use. And I did ask our LOR about this tonight, and he told me the Kedem (regular, I didn’t ask about the lite version) is fine for use all year round, including for the Seder.

    #1711064

    apushatayid
    Participant

    There is a machlokes between the mechaber and rma regarding the ratio of wine/water for something to be considered halachicly wine. There is a difference in how American and Israeli grape juice is made. israeli grape juice and certainly light grape juice is problematic according to the mechaber, while american grape juice, (and possibly even light) is not even for sefardim. I heard this in a shiur from a sefardi Rav, addressing making kiddush on grape juice.

    Everyone should ask their own rav, their own shayla.

    #1711065

    apushatayid
    Participant

    “There is a newish product on the market called Grape Juice light.”

    Light grape juice has been on the market for at least a dozen years. Probably more. not so new. Just your hock. It is only 2nd day of bein hazmanim, and already your bored?

    #1711129

    Shlomo 2
    Participant

    ALL grape juice is “watered down.”

    All grape juice is made from concentrate, to which water is then added.

    The “light” grape juice, as far as I know, just has more water added to it.

    It’s no less “grape juice” than the regular product is.

    Personally, I buy the regular and add my own water.

    If you think I’m wrong try getting Kedem to deny that they’re doing anything other than, when they reconstitute the concentrate, adding more water.

    #1711250

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    It’s not watered down if they reconstitute it to its original concentration or more.

    #1712932

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    anionymous: listening to the OU’s pre pesach webinar and their wine expert Rabbi Rabinovich (monastrich) stated outright that Kedem light Grape Juice is Kosher for Kiddush and Arba Kosos and can still have water added to it for those with health issues and it will still be hagafen.

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