Gut Shabbos vs. Shabbat Shalom

Home Forums Decaffeinated Coffee Gut Shabbos vs. Shabbat Shalom

Viewing 37 posts - 1 through 37 (of 37 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #615730
    DaMoshe
    Participant

    Growing up, my family always said Gut Shabbos. In the community I live in now, many people say Shabbat Shalom. I switch off, often depending on if the other person greeted me first.

    But recently, my Rav told me it’s probably slightly better to say Shabbat Shalom. The reason is that there is an inyan to have Shalom on Shabbos, and saying Shabbat Shalom is giving a brachah to have the Shalom. Since then, I try to say Shabbat Shalom, and not just Gut Shabbos.

    I wonder (and I’ll ask my Rav), since there’s a mitzvah to be b’simchah on Yom Tov, is it better to say Chag Sameach than Gut Yom Tov?

    What do people here say on Shabbos/Yom Tov?

    #1085590
    Avram in MD
    Participant

    Why doesn’t anyone say “Shabbos Shalom”? 🙂

    #1085591
    Joseph
    Participant

    Gut Shabbos / Gut Yom Tov.

    “Shabbat” is a Sefardic pronunciation. The Ashkenazic pronunciation is “Shabbos”. Traditionally Ashkenazim say “Gut Shabbos”. Someone pronouncing it as Shabbat who isn’t Sefardic is doing so for zionistic reasons and is changing their traditional minhag, something they should not do.,

    #1085592
    simcha613
    Participant

    I try and say Shabbos Shalom and Chag Sameach only because I think a berachah is probably more effective in loshon hakodesh (but I do try and say it in havarah Ashkenazis).

    #1085593
    akuperma
    Participant

    Did your family speak Yiddish in the past? Are you ashamed of being an Ashkenazi? Are yuou preferring the Israeli Hebrew “Shabat Shalom” (with its not quite Sefardi accent), rather than the Yiddish “Gut Shabbos” because it reflect your political views.

    On a related question, if you are from Boston, do you make an effort to drop a medial “r” or not to drop it. If you are from Brooklyn, do you speak “Brooklynese” or do you make an effort to sound like you were taught proper WASP pronounciation? If you are a Brit, do you make an effort to speak “RP”. IF you think this paragraph is ridiculous, so is the question on whether to prefer a “Sabbath greeting” in Israeli Hebrew or Yiddish.

    #1085594
    DaMoshe
    Participant

    I usually say Shabbat only because I find it rolls off the tongue easier than saying Shabbos Shalom. It has nothing to do with Sefardic or Ivrit pronunciation.

    That said, since my wife is Israeli, and has been teaching me Ivrit, I do tend to speak with an Israeli accent in conversational Hebrew (Ivrit). In davening, I do use a Sav, not only a Tav. Saying Shabbat Shalom to someone probably qualifies as conversational, not as tefillah.

    I never really thought about it in-depth before.

    Joseph, “traditionally”, Ashkenazim don’t say Gut Shabbos. Originally, Jews probably said Shabbat Shalom. At some point, they switched to the Aramaic equivalent. My point is, it was said in the language they used for conversation. That’s all Yiddish really is/was – a language used by Jews for conversation.

    #1085595
    Avram in MD
    Participant

    I’m confused by the bracha reasoing. How is wishing someone a “good” (or “gut”) Shabbos any less of a bracha than wishing someone a peaceful Shabbos?

    #1085596
    DaMoshe
    Participant

    Avram: My Rav said that peace is something that is specifically desirable on Shabbos, more so than a “good” Shabbos. Therefore, saying Shabbat (or Shabbos) Shalom is giving a brachah for something especially desirable, instead of a generic “good”.

    I should ask him where the mekor is for peace being special for Shabbos.

    #1085597
    nfgo3
    Member

    There are some interesting historical sources for the 2 greetings, and they have been discussed here, mostly correctly, by lesser intellects than mine. But, confidential to DaMoshe, if your rav thinks the choice of expressions requires some serious thought, get another rav.

    #1085598
    DaMoshe
    Participant

    nfgo3: He didn’t say it requires serious thought. I was walking with him after shul on Friday night, and he mentioned it offhand. That’s all. But even if he did think it requires serious thought, so what? Just because you disapprove of what my Rav thinks is important, you’d tell me to find a new one? What if you think a Rav gives a wrong psak? Should his followers stop using him?

    #1085599
    nfgo3
    Member

    To DaMoshe. OK, keep your rav.

    #1085600
    DaMoshe
    Participant

    Thanks, I’m so glad I have your approval.

    #1085601
    BarryLS1
    Participant

    DaMoshe: I use either term depending who I’m speaking with. Just do what you think is right and not listen to the anti crowd.

    For the most part, the Minhag HaMokom should be the way to go. There is no Halachic issue here, only politics.

    #1085602
    Joseph
    Participant

    For most folks, the real question is whether to say (the traditional) Gut Shabbos or to say (the more modernishe) Good Shabbos.

    What do you say?

    #1085603
    Matan1
    Participant

    For most folks, the real question is whether to say (the German) Gut Shabbos, or to say (the English) Good Shabbos.

    What do you say?

    #1085604
    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    For speakers of English or for speakers of German?

    #1085605
    sushibagel
    Member

    ????? ?? ????? ?? ?? ???? ??? ?? ??? ??

    #1085606
    TheGoq
    Participant

    Sometimes it hardly matters half the people you say it to will not respond.

    #1085607
    sushibagel
    Member

    Using the wrong term will probably get them to respond

    #1085608
    BarryLS1
    Participant

    I find it very nice, when out shopping on Erev Shabbos, that most Chilonim that you have any interaction with, say Shabbat Shalom.

    #1085609
    nfgo3
    Member

    The difference between “Gut” and “Good”, when followed by “Shabbos,” is, when spoken, inaudible.

    #1085610
    yeshivadan
    Member

    the ben ish chai says you should say shabbat shalom when you come into the house. He does not specify what to say to passersby.

    #2046907
    TS Baum
    Participant

    Well you do say shalom aleichem (malachei hashareis, malachei elyon) when you come home friday night.

    #2046911
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    The Ben Ish Chai says that we say Shabbos Shalom because we are uniting the mitzva of eating for shabbos and one’s desire of food by eating lashem Shomayim.
    We call the sacrifice shelamim making peace between Hashem and us by eating lashem Shomayim, see SA O’CH 231.

    #2046913
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Some say before shabbos when they are not accepting shabbos yet, a guten shabbos.

    #2046917
    ujm
    Participant

    DaMoshe: Did you ever get an answer from your Rabbi for Avram’s question?

    #2046918

    When I meet a Sephardi Talmid Chacham, I say “shabbat shalom” and he says “gut shabbos” and we both smile at our mutual respect. Whatever you are saying, it is about what is the best for the recipient. Gut shabbos.

    #2046920
    DovidBT
    Participant

    Just say “Shabbos”.

    #2046931
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    If you see someone carrying in a place where there is no eiruv don’t mention shabbos until one gets into the house.

    #2046934

    RebE > someone carrying in a place where there is no eiruv don’t mention shabbos

    say, eruv is down, and you see a mother with a stroller who is not aware of it. You are not supposed to alert her until she gets the kid home safely. Now, in your humros-ness, you say “Hi, whats up” instead of “gut shabbos” immediately alerting the lady (who also learned halokha, of course). As you are probably reluctant to continue exchanging the kid with a lady, not your wife, every arba amos, you would have to find another lady to help, while you will be standing there till the end of shabbos to guard the $1,000 stroller.

    #2047054
    huju
    Participant

    All these comments have convinced me to go with, “Have a nice day.”

    #2047062
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    If you are MO or lean more towards modern ivrit, you’ve probably had the experience of going to a simcha at a DEEEP Litvishe shul and going up to someone after davening and offering a crisp “shabbat shalom” only to be met with a quizzical or hostile stare (sort of like someone who goes around deliberately running chalk on a blackboard). By the second or third time, you quickly find yourself doing your best “gooooten shabboss” followed by a request for directions to the kiddush.

    #2047083
    Kuvult
    Participant

    My Rav said due to it being questionable what to do it’s better not to greet or return a greeting on Shabbos. When I told him it comes off rude not answering and besides it creates feelings of shalom, achdus and community to greet each other. He said never the less due to the shailah it’s better not to greet

    #2047116

    Kuvult, I saw people following your psak! Just walk with a sefer or a siddur in front of you and move your lips, and you will avoid the mahlokes.

    #2047165
    AviraDeArah
    Participant

    Gadolha; I don’t think many litvishe react negatively to a visibly sefardi yid saying shabbat shalom, especially if they have a aefardi or Israeli accent.

    I share the consternation that many have with ashkenazi jews using the American sefardi-esque pronunciation that takes the chisronos of both the ashkenaz and sefardi pronunciations, attempting to make Hebrew as easy as possible. Most MO people are ashkenaz and should be differentiating between a hard/soft tav, komatz/pasach, tzeirei/segol and others.

    It’s also frustrating to see people sound the same as irreligious jews who went to hebrew after school programs.

    #2047298

    Avira, again you harking back to the times of Ben Yehuda. At this point, there are so many Jews who lived in Israel, or learned with Israeli pronunciation, or have an Israeli parent, that this should not be so surprising. What about sephardim who are not “visibly sephardi”, as many Levant Jews look like Europeans, and many now assimilated from turbans into black hats. Just answer the shabbos greeting the best way you can and enjoy it.

    #2048096
    user176
    Participant

    Do what your parents did. Or wtvr your rabbi said to do. Or wtvr you want. Anyone who judges your Shabbat greeting is just grumpy.

    As for the question, I prefer Shabbat Shalom.

Viewing 37 posts - 1 through 37 (of 37 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.