Guys and Tznius

Chazon ish said the antidote to the yetzer hara for men is Torah study (from talmud kiddushin), whilst the antidote to the yetzer hara for women is Tzenius

Go on halachafortoday (it’s a web site – mods please allow it) and there is a whole list of hilchos tznius for males.

The Midrash that the woman (Chava) is from the back bone, something that should be hidden (only revealed to her husband). This is a component of Tzenius that does not apply to men, as they don’t have to hide like women (themselves and there body).

????? ??? ?? ????’? was not said for women (pasuk is talking in masculine), it applies for men. Jewish men certainly have to be tznuim. I think there’s a whole siman about it (in shulchan aruch? kitzur?)

The answer is “yes, but.”

There is a concept of tznius for men also, and men should conduct their lives with a measure of tznius.

However, it is nothing like the idea for women. When G-d created woman, with each limb He said ??? ??? ?????. There is a no parallel concept by men of ?? ????? ?? ??? ?????.

Put simply, men are supposed to go out in the world, and hunt, plant, and build things. Women are supposed to take care of the house.

And women who aren’t comfortable with that should see an endocrinologist because they probably have a hormonal imbalance. (hee hee, Ok, I don’t really think that far. I certainly understand that social norms have changed and it is impossible for women not to be affected by that. But, there are a billion articles written about how women are actually not happy with the new social norms.)

cinderella- go to the site and check archives

I think the point of the Chazon Ish, is that men who are commanded to learn Torah, only are exempt from caring about Tzeniuskite like women, men only leave torah if they have to work, when they go out to work, they do not stay home, and cook, make the beds, sow, knead, clean the house, and look after the babies (mentioned in Kesubos-the woman’s jobs in the Talmudic times).

Over time social-economic changes have occurred in which women also have to work, and go to the shops, or go to school ect, so therefore in these generations ‘Tzenius’ is emphasized for women more then men, as women who are commanded to be completely hidden, now emerge out of unavoidable circumstances, therefore, they have to ensure there clothing covers the areas that need covering, they should be the ones to refrain from talking unnecessary talk to men, whilst the men who are commanded to learn all day or work should not need to worry about this specifically like women, as they are commanded to engage in 1 thing only.

please mods allow this

http://halachafortoday.com/ArchivesHilchosTzniyusForMen.aspx

cinderella –

Because if you define tznius the right way, which is showing the world that you are not a body…

Side point, which I made on an earlier thread of yours too:

Tznius is not about showing the world anything. It is about refraining from showing things to the world.

cinderella –

You are right that tznius is a way of life. But tznius is not about showing things to the world.

It is not tznius to show off your body. But it is also not tznius to show off your internal self. The pasuk says ?????????? ????? ??? ?????????. It isn’t talking specifically about women, and I don’t believe it is talking about clothing. The word tzanua literally means hidden. You can hide physically and you can hide by not broadcasting your personal, deep, internal relationship with God.

Consider human relationships for example. It is proper and even expected that a person show a certain amount of love for their significant other in public. If that affection is not shown then they must be lacking in their relationship. But at the same time, to publicly display past a certain point is superficial and distasteful, even vulgar. Not just because of “pritzus” issues. But because there is a certain depth to the relationship which is so rich that it is not possible to be shared with others, and when one tries to show it off it gets watered down, so why would you want to show it off?

Tznius is about hiding something. It is not about showing off anything, even good things. ?????????? ????? ??? ????????? tells us that there is an aspect of our relationship with God that we should keep private. It might be that there is value in showing off certain things in a certain refined way, but that is not the parsha of tznius, that’s something else. Tznius is about the value of keeping it to yourself.

cinderella –

Thanks, and you do make a good point as well. People will always notice something, so it’s very important to make sure that they will notice the meaningful and not the superficial. That is very true.

MichaelC:

The statement (Tznius is the antidote for women) is a quote from the Vilna Gaon. And that is logical, based on each gender’s individual Ta’avos (as I have posted many times before, even though the Gaon doesn’t need my Haskama).

Omer Davar B’shem Omro Mevi Geulah L’Olam.

If there is a concept of tznius for men with regards to clothing, then what should a man do regarding swimming with regards to bathing suits and keeping a shirt on or not?

Do bochurim dress in shorts and Crocs on Sundays? If they don’t, then it is probably because, one, they are conscious of representing their Yeshiva, two, there is peer pressure against it, or, three, they see themselves as standing before Hashem at all times. If they dress down while camping or digging in the garden, I can understand.

Tznius is a matter of dressing with dignity and a degree of self-effacement. In the secular world you can see both the extremes of sweat pants (I dress only for my comfort, and I don’t care if I look like a slob) and to grab attention such as florescent colors.

Crocs are OK on Tisha B’Av and Yom Kippur, but I wouldn’t wear them outside the house other days.