Guys, Satmar is ONLY 107 years old!

Home Forums Bais Medrash Guys, Satmar is ONLY 107 years old!

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  • #1798320

    Yabia Omer
    Participant

    Doesn’t that make them very low in the Mesora totem pole?

    #1798344

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    The targum on בן סורר ומורה says סטי ומרי satu umare. St. Mary, Satmar

    #1798345

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Satmar used to be ashkanaz under Rav Yehuda Gruenwald.

    #1798375

    Joseph
    Participant

    Reb Eliezer: Your targum is a myth. The town is named after a family by the name Szatmar.

    #1798376

    Joseph
    Participant

    Satmar’s mesora dates from the Yismach Moshe and much earlier.

    #1798385

    Yabia Omer
    Participant

    Rav Yoel named himself the Rebbe of Satmar in 1912. Satmar is a 20th century phenomenon. Nekuda.

    #1798388

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    “Your targum is a myth”
    The targum is real
    Devarim 21:18
    אֲרֵי יְהֵי לִגְבַר בַּר סָטֵי וּמָרֵי

    The remez to Mordechai in the Torah is based on targum, similarly the remez to Satmar is there as well

    That said theEnglish connection is in fact a myth

    “Satmar’s mesira dates from…”
    lol!

    #1798427

    YA: While he started calling himself the Rebbe of Satmar it was a continuation of the sigheter chassidim.

    #1798415

    Benephraim
    Participant

    The Rabbonim Hageonim of the Teitelbaum Family descend from Reb Moshe of Ujhel. The ישמח משה. He was a ben dor of the Gaon and the AR. The Satmar Rav was in Kruli before Satmar. Rav Hutner z”l held from the SR a velt. That backdates the מסורה quite a bit.

    #1798400

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    The Yismadh Moshe was not from Satmar but Ujhely.

    #1798396

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    The father of the Satmar Rebbe was the Sighet Rebbe, not the Satmar Rebbe

    The Anti-Zionism of the Satmar Rebbe comes from Munkatch

    #1798394

    Billywee
    Participant

    The name actually means big city or villiage in Romanian.

    #1798470

    Unkelos as printed in the Mikraos Gedolos has בּר סטי וּמָרוֹד

    https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=9617&st=&pgnum=276

    #1798480

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    The Artscroll Mikraos Gedolos has morei and the DBS whereas the Bar Ilan has morad. I checked an old sefer for all chumoshium published 1928 by Chorav in Berlin has morei in it. Many others have also morei in it.

    #1798494

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Does anyone believe Rav Yolish’s shitah on Tzionim and living and cooperating with the Medinah would be any different today than when he first articulated his views 70* years ago??

    #1798517

    Yabia Omer
    Participant

    GH: I tell Satmar people ALL THE TIME that if R Yoel saw Israel today he’d totally change his mind.

    #1798523

    Whatsaktome
    Participant

    Why would he change his shita? His shita is that eretz yisrael belongs to the goyim and not to the yidden during golus and we therefore have to give it back

    #1798530

    ZionGate
    Participant

    Satu Mare is an old important city in Transylvania, Romania but cannot be compared to the more cosmopolitan Hungarian Budapest where even in the ’40s, the trains ran on time and punctual.

    #1798590

    MRS PLONY
    Participant

    Didn’t the Baal Shem Tov live around the same time as Ben Franklin? Chassidus in general is not really an ancient phenomenon

    #1798600

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    @billywee
    It doesn’t matter what the name means in Romanian, because it is from an old Hungarian name hundreds of years before there was a Romania.

    More than 1000 years ago it was known as castrum Zotmar (Zotmar’s fort), a defensive position named for a prominent individual or family. Castrum has the same Latin root as Castle, a fortified building used for defense.

    #1799027

    IvduEsHashemBsimcha
    Participant

    @ctlawyer “hundreds of years before there was a Romania”
    Don’t confuse the State of Romania (late 1800’s) with Romanian-speaking areas. According to your logic, Germany and Italy are also younger than the USA.

    #1799080

    Joseph
    Participant

    Satmar,I believe, was in Hungary for many hundreds of years prior to World War ONE.

    #1799110

    Yabia Omer
    Participant

    Satmar as a movement is only about 107 years old. There isn’t some “ancient mesora” that they have. You know how many Satmar people I met that can’t even trace their lineage more than 2 generations as Satmar? Probably the majority.

    #1799263

    YA: Define ancient mesorsa please.The whole movement we know as chasiddus starts with the Baal Shem Tov and is what 300 years old??

    #1799285

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    The Satmar Rebbe who surived the war did not change his mind, but Im sure that some who were anti-zionists before the war had they survived would have changed their mind given that the survivors could no longer live in Europe.

    The places that were forbidden in 1939 were the places that jews had to move to after the war, So any Rav who was opposed to going to America or Israel in 1939 could not have held that position in 1945

    #1799333

    Yabia Omer
    Participant

    Tuition: Exactly! Hamevin yavin.

    #1799348

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Look up the book Kehilos Hungaria under Satmar Nemeti Page 279 says that it was first inhabited by Jews in 1820. The Jews were chased out in 1715.

    #1799368

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Going back to the originalpost, WHO CARES about their temporal position on the so called “Totem Pole” of mesorah. If moisiach shows up tomorrow and he is from a chassidus that dates back 1755, will we tell him we cannot follow all his instructions since we hold by another Rebbelah whose yichus dates from the late 1600s??

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