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Guys who reject most of hundred plus girls they date- are they really “ON the Derech”?
As a Shadchan I’m disgusted by the many guys who I see who reject most of the girls they date. Yes, there are girls like that too, who reject most of hundred+ guys they date, but way less.
Is this the Torah way? Shouldnt they be seeking Rabbinic or psychological (or both) help? I think yes. They need some serious guidance and hand-holding. Im well aware of the high divorce rate leading to their hesitation of commitment if it doesnt feel right, but if someone has such difficulty, they ought to either stop dating or get therapy. Its hurtful for each of the girls they reject. Why should they inflict this pain endlessly? This cant be the Torah way. My opinion would only bother those who want to follow the Torah and Gedolim, but hopefully that would include all serious daters in the frum world.
I know a frum guy who stopped dating for 5 years to get the counseling that he needed.
He deserves a lot of credit.
And he got married shortly thereafter.
Of course – I know plenty of girls who were sooo picky and now in their 40’s and 50’s aren’t married. So this is an across the board problem. I also don’t think anybody has the right to call them “off the derech”. These people probably should see mental health professionals, but to call them OTD is wrong! I also believe it’s the responsibility of the family to get them this help, not the yeshivos. Even though I’ve posted before that I think Yeshivos & Bais Yaakovs should have in-house mental health prof., that wouldn’t be their responsibility -to get them married, unless there isn’t any family to speak of!
I know someone, happily married with children, that married the (approx.) 150th girl he dated.
There is a new field called “dating therapy.” Maybe it is worth looking into.
There is also a person who is known as a “dating coach”. This is a person that is very knowledgeable and knows how to guide a young person through the process. The point of the dating coach is for the young person to have ONE individual who can help and not be discussing the dates with 10 friends and get ten opinions. The coach is completely non-biased and doesn’t claim to know that person better than they know themselves. They are a good sounding board and can help them navigate through the process without getting emotional calling the date a “nerd” for doing or not doing a certain thing. They point out was is normal and why they should give the date another chance and so on.
morah reyna -I never heard of this “field”. Maybe some frum shrinks are doing “dating therapy”, but doesn’t make it a separate field.
As a Shadchan I’m disgusted by the many guys who I see who reject most of the girls they date….Its hurtful for each of the girls they reject. Why should they inflict this pain endlessly?
So, why do you keep setting them up with dates if you know they are causing pain to other people?
Of course- I AGREE with you 10000% percent!!!
Im speaking as a girl in the shidduch world and setting people up- i cannot agree with you more.
I have spoken to many people, saw and heard way too many incidents that i agree that one who is dating should either/have a a) an older. experinced, and intelligent indiviual to guide them
b) a RAV!!!! DAAS TORAH is SO SO important!!
c) If one needs to seek help. guidance/ mentoring/life- dating coach- SO BE IT!! there is NOTHING wrong with having a professional guidance. People get defensive when you say the word- thereapy/ psychologist..etc…the above terms used I think is appropriate and a less “needy” feeling- which in all honesty there is nothing wrong.
So yes, getting yourself the people you need to aquire the proper tools and guidance is very commendable and should be taken to use!
Good Luck!!
The term OTD is too strong, but yes, this is a big problem. The older singles often (if not always) do need some form of guidance. I don’t know why you single out the men, though, there are plenty of single women with the same issue.
Of course:
You don’t usually post troll threads.
I agree that everyone should have an older and wiser person to discuss their dates with but please don’t get disgusted by them! If they don’t feel it then they don’t feel it. Ze hu! Why should they go out again to spare the girl’s feelings when they’ll end it on a next date and hurt the girl even more as she will be more emotionally invested? I believe it’s extremely frustrating as a shadchan to keep having to give over a no and I really commend you for putting in the effort to help the singles among klal yisroel but please don’t think you know with certainty that a guy should continue dating someone. He just may have his reasons.
HEALTH
I do it all the time. I have never made a shidduch but i have coached many through the process and they say it probably would not have happened without itaries2756:
There is also a person who is known as a “dating coach”. This is a person that is very knowledgeable and knows how to guide a young person through the process. The point of the dating coach is for the young person to have ONE individual who can help and not be discussing the dates with 10 friends and get ten opinions. The coach is completely non-biased and doesn’t claim to know that person better than they know themselves. They are a good sounding board and can help them navigate through the process without getting emotional calling the date a “nerd” for doing or not doing a certain thing. They point out was is normal and why they should give the date another chance and so on.
“like”
Everyone should have a “dating coach” – a real one, not an “older friend” but a real experienced person who knows what they are talking about.
Everyone should have a “dating coach”
Thanks for the advice, but I don’t think my wife would be too thrilled. 😉
if you let her be it im sure she’ll be fine.
The troll part is not that it doesn’t exist.
The troll part is that you called it similar to OTD to get us to comment, when there was zero relevance.
And the denial that girls also have this issue.
it would be nice to get a date to even be a POSSIBLE reject. of course im not saying that i would reject im really just saying that it would be nice to get a date….
the guys have looooong lists and feel like they could just “go on to the next one on there….” its an insane attitude that ive seen from my relitives first hand! and with an attitude like that, one may never get married.
OP: what reasons are you getting from guys- what reasons are they giving you and what do you think they actually mean?
Hey, the guys (unlike the girls) have a loooong list of prospective girls desperate to go on a date with them. So these tzadikim bochorim want to give as many single desperate-for-a-date girls as possible a chance to have a date.
jk
Once I read that you are a shadchan I stopped reading because your opinion is biased (you make money when you make a shiduch). That doesn’t necesserily mean that you are wrong though…
Of course -“I didnt go as far as calling them OFF the Derech, I just dont think they’re ON the Derech either! They’re somewhere in the middle. I guess you can call their malady- Serious-dating-prax (similar to Orthoprax)!”
Yea, you’re right -it’s not 6 eggs, it’s half a dozen. And btw, s/o who is orthoprax is OTD. Just because you don’t like their behavior doesn’t give you the right to call them OTD! I personally would be happier if you called them mentally ill, than Not On the Derech. It’s not your place to decide who is on the derech and who isn’t!
Of course:You don’t usually post troll threads.
PBA, I actually had guessed that you posted this question…I was amazed to find myself wrong in this instance.
They are following in the path of Dovid HaMelech, who:
1: Searched the entire land to find the best looking girl (Avishag, IIRC).
2: Married Bas-Sheva.
Quark:
162: Even in the worst of times, someone turns a profit.
285: No good deed ever goes unpunished.
Ofcourse – “I ~ A S K E D ~ “are they “ON the Derech”?”.
This you asked in the OP and then you STATED:
“I just dont think they’re ON the Derech either! They’re somewhere in the middle”
To this I responded -“It’s not your place to decide who is on the derech and who isn’t!”
When I see the same guys inflicting pain over and over again on so many girls, with girls getting turned off from dating, and the feeling of Yay-ush setting in, I feel someone should tactfully, but effectively Hocheach Tochiach es Amitecha, otherwise we’re all enablers.
That’s all good and well (not really, but you know what I mean), but calling them OTD, no matter the semantic gymnastics, is, shall we say, a bit over the top.
@Ofcourse-
So instead, the boys are in a no-win situation. Either they say no to the girls in advance, thus eliminating the pain of rejection but opening themselves up to being called “unreasonably picky” by shadchanim who just “know”, despite having never met either party, that “it’s bashert, and you’re throwing your life away by not picking up on it!”; or, they finally give in, say yes to the girl, have an absolutely miserable time on the date that they never wanted to be on in the first place, and are then labeled “well I won’t call you off the derech, wink wink”.
Marriage is not for everyone.
@Ofcourse-
In conversation with world renowned, professional roshei yeshiva and rabbonim (and shadchanim, come to think of it) (by the way, how do you italicize? Thanks!), I’ve heard them say that most guys who seriously date for more than 2 years and don’t find, are being faced with a nisayon, and should keep doing their hishtadlus and davening until the right one (ONE) comes along. And you’re right – if the right one was not red, and the boy keeps on saying yes and going out with girls, they both end up getting hurt. But until we come up with a system to identify who (whom?) the right ONE is ahead of time, it’s not fair to expect the boys to get married to a girl just because he’s going out with her. (Incidentally, have you head about the “divorce crisis”?)
So I do respect your opinion, and you’re certainly entitled to it, but yes, I do disagree. I won’t deny that there are some boys who have issues, but to paint all boys who haven’t had the bracha of finding their bashert yet as being not quite on the derech is a bit unfair.
(by the way, how do you italicize? Thanks!)
I’ve been wondering the same thing. JK
<em>(by the way, how do you italicize? Thanks!)</em>results in:
(by the way, how do you italicize? Thanks!)
Marriage is not for everyone.
Many of those can work on themselves (for many, it’s hopeless).
@Daas Yochid-
Thanks! (That’s perfectly logical; why didn’t I figure it out on my own? Duh! Em!!) 🙂
Marriage is not for everyone.
Chazal say otherwise.
Im thinking that there are so many single girls in or close to their thirties now. Fast forward twenty years, unless Moshiach comes or some miracle happens, girls who will still be single, will be walking around the frum neighborhoods with uncovered graying or dyed thinning hair (while by comparison, the bulk of their classmates will be blondes, redheads, and brunettes, in addition to having children and granchildren at their sides, now and then). What a sad thought. Until recently they were only a tiny percentage. Ouch.
There are a greater *percentage* of older girls unmarried today than 20 years ago???
Marriage is not for everyone.
Shlishi – “Chazal say otherwise.”
Wrong.
The Mishna in Avos about L’Chupa isn’t exclusionary.
Marriage is not for everyone.
Shlishi – “Chazal say otherwise.”
Wrong.
I agree, but it should be backed up.
The Mishna in Avos about L’Chupa isn’t exclusionary.
How do you know?
I would say that Chaza”l could not possibly have held that marriage is for everyone, since it’s not possible for everyone to get married.
Daas, that’s true, but out of context. The above posters don’t wish to exclude only those incapable of getting married. Read between the leaves. I’m sure they won’t agree to limit their “unmarriageable material” to those incapable of getting married. Poster “Ofcourse”, above, is implying that picky daters are unmarriageable material. And just look at the other thread on Shmiras Einayim, for example, where you have posters advocating that men with a shmiras einayim problem not get married. These are surely not things Chazal excluded from who should get married (i.e. in Avos).
to all those who say that marriage is not for everyone, i agree, but i thought there is a chazzal or something that says that 40 days before a person is born a bas kol calls out who they are going to marry. can someone clarify?
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