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Does “Eisav soneh Liyakov” apply only to Eisav (as opposed to Yishmael, Lavan, and the rest of the world) or to all enemies of yaakov?
[If you say it applies only to Eisav, maybe the reason everyone applies it to other enemies as well is because “Ba Sancheirev uvilbeil es kol ha’olam”?]How is this a halachic question?
Maiy nafka mina and who cares lol.
We see there is a lot of jew hating going on and it’s impossible to tell anyway today who is esav or yishmael or anyone else for that matter….we’re all mixed upNever forget we’re in golus. Even in Eretz Yisroel.
הלכה ידוע בישראל עשו שונא ליעקב
For all those confused.
The muslims from all Muslim countries including iran, iraq, saudia arabia and the Palestinian authority etc…. Are all Beni Yishmael while the Christian countries are bnei Eisav
I’m not sure that Iran are Bnei Yishmoel. They aren’t Arabs.
סנחריב בלבל את האומות
As long as we try to demonize entire groups of people and legitimize our hatred and venom in the guise of religious beliefs or racist notions of racial/ethnic superiority of certain groups over others, we are only endorsing the disgusting rhetoric coming from segments of our political leadership (on both sides of the aisle).
Dorah: I take it that you don’t believe the Jewish people are the Chosen Nation, over everyone else.
Joseph
If Iranians are not from Yishmael, what are they?
adocs: Who are the Afghanistanis from?
R’Henoch Leibowitz was of the view it only applied towards עשו
Some however contend these are characteristics
ISIS Fighters and their supporters Show traits Of cool Sadism
May have mixed in( arguably a reason Older Arab states are so concerned about them]
The rubric of עשוAdocs, the Iranians are from Yaphet. Both anthropologically and linguistically they are related to the Europeans.
Dor, it could be that Eisav is not an ethnic group but an ideological group. Rav Chaim Brisker said this about Amalek. Really, it is very difficult to claim that the Europeans are literally descended from the Edomites. According to Kabbala Eisav is the perversion of din (kelipat hasmole) so any group that uses Law to oppress us would be Eisav (e.g. the Nazis ym”s who first made laws before taking official antisemitic measures). Yishmael is the perversion of chesed (kelipat hayamin) so any group that fights us by doing chesed with our enemies would be Yishmael.
Chosen by whom and for what/??? By hashem, to serve hashem, YES. To imply global superiority with divine rights to subordinate or oppress others, NO.
Yes, superiority.
GH,
This thread, I think, is very interesting and non-threatening..
Who’s demonizing?
Say, what do you mean by suppressing and oppressing others??
V-e-r-r-y inter-r-r -ess-ting..
My antenna is vibrating now.
Yes,we are the Chosen People for spiritual purposes, and even anti-Semites feel it on some level….. and are frightened by it.
Suppressing , oppressing others… Mmmmmm.…… you wrote subordinating, I thought I saw suppressing…. my word error.. My post, however, is intact.
a. It’s not a “halacha” in the sense that it is commonly used.
b. Aisav does not keep halacha anyway.The Wolf
I can’t the recall the sefer, but the writer makes a case that Iranians are from Yefes. We know they’re not Arabs.
Iranians are Persians
Adocs, the Iranians are from Yephet. They are part of the Indo-European peoples and their language is related to European languages. In any case, Eisav and Yishmael could be ideological groups. Rav chaim Brisker says this about Amalek.
Dor, you are half correct. Rambam says at the end of Hilchot Melachim that we have no desire to rule others. However we were not chosen merely to serve Hashem. Every creature was created for that purpose. We were chosen to bring ethical monotheism to the world. How is another question. Rav Hirsch says by being part of their societies. Rav Kook says by building a state in EY. The YU sheeta is two centers. The US and Israel. There is also a discussion as to whether we should actively missionize for the sheva mitzvot.
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