Halachic question

Home Coffeeroom Bais Medrash Halachic question

Viewing 21 posts - 1 through 21 (of 21 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #1620505

    square root of 2
    Participant

    Does “Eisav soneh Liyakov” apply only to Eisav (as opposed to Yishmael, Lavan, and the rest of the world) or to all enemies of yaakov?
    [If you say it applies only to Eisav, maybe the reason everyone applies it to other enemies as well is because “Ba Sancheirev uvilbeil es kol ha’olam”?]

    #1620528

    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    How is this a halachic question?

    #1620537

    DISCOVERHASHEM
    Participant

    Maiy nafka mina and who cares lol.
    We see there is a lot of jew hating going on and it’s impossible to tell anyway today who is esav or yishmael or anyone else for that matter….we’re all mixed up

    #1620540

    laskern
    Participant

    הלכה ידוע בישראל עשו שונא ליעקב

    #1620541

    Sam Klein
    Participant

    For all those confused.

    The muslims from all Muslim countries including iran, iraq, saudia arabia and the Palestinian authority etc…. Are all Beni Yishmael while the Christian countries are bnei Eisav

    #1620586

    Joseph
    Participant

    I’m not sure that Iran are Bnei Yishmoel. They aren’t Arabs.

    #1620606

    Sechel HaYashar
    Participant

    סנחריב בלבל את האומות

    #1620929

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    As long as we try to demonize entire groups of people and legitimize our hatred and venom in the guise of religious beliefs or racist notions of racial/ethnic superiority of certain groups over others, we are only endorsing the disgusting rhetoric coming from segments of our political leadership (on both sides of the aisle).

    #1620936

    Joseph
    Participant

    Dorah: I take it that you don’t believe the Jewish people are the Chosen Nation, over everyone else.

    #1620948

    adocs
    Participant

    Joseph

    If Iranians are not from Yishmael, what are they?

    #1620952

    Joseph
    Participant

    adocs: Who are the Afghanistanis from?

    #1620950

    R’Henoch Leibowitz was of the view it only applied towards עשו

    Some however contend these are characteristics
    ISIS Fighters and their supporters Show traits Of cool Sadism
    May have mixed in( arguably a reason Older Arab states are so concerned about them]
    The rubric of עשו

    #1621238

    Avi K
    Participant

    Adocs, the Iranians are from Yaphet. Both anthropologically and linguistically they are related to the Europeans.

    Dor, it could be that Eisav is not an ethnic group but an ideological group. Rav Chaim Brisker said this about Amalek. Really, it is very difficult to claim that the Europeans are literally descended from the Edomites. According to Kabbala Eisav is the perversion of din (kelipat hasmole) so any group that uses Law to oppress us would be Eisav (e.g. the Nazis ym”s who first made laws before taking official antisemitic measures). Yishmael is the perversion of chesed (kelipat hayamin) so any group that fights us by doing chesed with our enemies would be Yishmael.

    #1621557

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Chosen by whom and for what/??? By hashem, to serve hashem, YES. To imply global superiority with divine rights to subordinate or oppress others, NO.

    #1621588

    Joseph
    Participant

    Yes, superiority.

    #1621723

    ZionGate
    Participant

    GH,
    This thread, I think, is very interesting and non-threatening..
    Who’s demonizing?
    Say, what do you mean by suppressing and oppressing others??
    V-e-r-r-y inter-r-r -ess-ting..
    My antenna is vibrating now.
    Yes,we are the Chosen People for spiritual purposes, and even anti-Semites feel it on some level….. and are frightened by it.
    Suppressing , oppressing others… Mmmmmm.

    #1621733

    ZionGate
    Participant

    …… you wrote subordinating, I thought I saw suppressing…. my word error.. My post, however, is intact.

    #1621735

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    a. It’s not a “halacha” in the sense that it is commonly used.
    b. Aisav does not keep halacha anyway.

    The Wolf

    #1621751

    ZionGate
    Participant

    I can’t the recall the sefer, but the writer makes a case that Iranians are from Yefes. We know they’re not Arabs.

    #1621776

    goygetter
    Participant

    Iranians are Persians

    #1621804

    Avi K
    Participant

    Adocs, the Iranians are from Yephet. They are part of the Indo-European peoples and their language is related to European languages. In any case, Eisav and Yishmael could be ideological groups. Rav chaim Brisker says this about Amalek.

    Dor, you are half correct. Rambam says at the end of Hilchot Melachim that we have no desire to rule others. However we were not chosen merely to serve Hashem. Every creature was created for that purpose. We were chosen to bring ethical monotheism to the world. How is another question. Rav Hirsch says by being part of their societies. Rav Kook says by building a state in EY. The YU sheeta is two centers. The US and Israel. There is also a discussion as to whether we should actively missionize for the sheva mitzvot.

Viewing 21 posts - 1 through 21 (of 21 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.


Trending