August 21, 2018 2:00 pm at 2:00 pm #1578387CosmoKramerParticipant
Would it be permissible to shoot pennies and other coins with a sling shot to scare away a fox or other predator from the backyard?August 21, 2018 4:35 pm at 4:35 pm #1578438
Yes, provided your gain is greater than your loss.August 21, 2018 4:35 pm at 4:35 pm #1578432JosephParticipant
Getting rid of animal predators is permitted.August 21, 2018 7:00 pm at 7:00 pm #1578473DovidBTParticipant
Why use coins? Unless you’re planning on retrieving them, it’s poisoning the vegetation and wasting money that could be used for tzedakah.
There’s a recent post at asknoah DOT org SLASH forum, titled “Traps for harmful insects”, on this subject.August 22, 2018 7:23 am at 7:23 am #1578575👑RebYidd23Participant
Use one fox to deter another.August 22, 2018 9:47 am at 9:47 am #1578739Takes2-2tangoParticipant
Use little rocks. Rocks are free.August 22, 2018 2:03 pm at 2:03 pm #1578778
Tzaar baalei chayim means torturing an animal for no reason but sadism. That’s why it’s forbidden; it promotes a bad middah, and one who enjoys being cruel to animals will end up being cruel to people.
But if it’s done for a reason, even a very slight one, it’s permitted. For instance, although nobody could be so cruel as to pull a feather from a living bird to use as a pen, al pi din it’s permitted, because you’re not doing it to hurt the bird, you just want the pen and the bird’s pain is collateral damage.August 22, 2018 2:03 pm at 2:03 pm #1578781
Call your local city/county government’s Animal Control. They might have some good ideas, like trapping and relocating the fox, or sprays or other repellents to keep it away. Shooting stuff at it won’t help. Foxes are smart – it’ll just come around when you’re not there. Unless you want to get a dog and keep it out in the yard most of the time.
Why is it worrying you? Do you keep chickens or something that you’re afraid it will eat? Then it would be a good idea to critter-proof their pen. And if you’re keeping chickens, check with your local zoning people. In some places it’s against the law and you could get hit with an expensive fine. If you’re afraid it will eat your cat, just keep your cat inside. For a small dog, just never let it out without you. Foxes have a reputation for being smart, and they deserve it.August 22, 2018 2:04 pm at 2:04 pm #1578784
By the way, foxes are a protected species. It’s illegal to kill one without a permit. You could get in trouble if you do. Check with your local city/county office. Shooting rocks at in your yard is OK, though, as long as you don’t injure or kill it.August 22, 2018 2:22 pm at 2:22 pm #1578848
“Tzaar baalei chayim means torturing an animal for no reason but sadism. ”
I know for certain that that is not true. It is assur to neuter an animal, which is far from sadistic. It is also forbidden to declaw a cat. Maybe there are differing opinions on the matter.August 22, 2018 4:09 pm at 4:09 pm #1578886👑RebYidd23Participant
Foxes are some of the best animals. If wild foxes are bothering you, check if it’s legal in your area to get a domesticated fox or other pet foxes.August 22, 2018 4:11 pm at 4:11 pm #1578876
To neuter and animal, I think is not because of tzaar baal chaim but because of destroying the species. To declaw cat you are eliminating its means of protection.August 22, 2018 6:00 pm at 6:00 pm #1578954DovidBTParticipant
To declaw cat you are eliminating its means of protection.
Declawing a cat also involves chopping off the first joint of the cat’s fingers, which is not very nice. If the choice is declawing or euthanizing, at least leave the rear feet intact, which leaves the cat some protection, and helps it escape from a predator.August 22, 2018 6:01 pm at 6:01 pm #1578949
RebYidd – sorry, but there are no domesticated foxes, except those which are raised in cages for their fur. Having a pet fox is illegal in most places, and it’s wise to be careful of the wild ones anyway, since a few of them carry rabies. Foxes are indeed amazing, but if they’re eating your chickens or your cat or turning over your garbage cans, maybe you’d like to admire them from a distance.
The OP should just be happy that they’re not coyotes. Those have moved across Canada (interbreeding with wolves on the way) and are now working their way down the east coast of the US. And they’ll not only eat your cat, they’ll eat that fox, too.August 22, 2018 8:59 pm at 8:59 pm #1578968
A cat that does not leave the house does not need it’s claws for protection and it is common to declaw them even partially. Regarding spaying and neutering, you may be right but I am not so sure. I think it is wrong even if the cat or dog has already had its litters because it is considered an unnecessary, or voluntary surgery.August 25, 2018 10:58 pm at 10:58 pm #1579825yitzchokmParticipant
Neutering an animal has nothing to do with tb”h.
Its as osser as lighting a fire on ShabbosAugust 25, 2018 10:59 pm at 10:59 pm #1579832☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
The source of the issur of neutering is the פסוק of ובארצכם לא תעשו.August 25, 2018 11:51 pm at 11:51 pm #1579837AskaravParticipant
It is an issue min hatorah to neuter an animal or even to get it neutered in your behalf. You can purchase one that has been neutered already. Regarding selling your animal to a non-Jew and he having it neutered and then purchasing it back, ask your local Rabbi.August 25, 2018 11:56 pm at 11:56 pm #1579848
He said no.August 26, 2018 9:46 am at 9:46 am #1579893ToiParticipant
Issur sirus, as others have pointed out, is an issur mi’di’oraysa. Tzar baalei chayim seems to be muttar if it’s for a purpose, even when not necessarily for a product. See the Gemara and Tosfos somewhere around daf 14, 15 in AZ.August 26, 2018 12:33 pm at 12:33 pm #1580076
By Kapores, there is no reason to have the had of fowl dangling downward.September 5, 2018 10:06 am at 10:06 am #1587391
As others have pointed out the issur of neutering animals (or people) is unrelated to the issur of tzaar baalei chayim. It’s a completely separate issur.
As for declawing cats, who told you it’s ossur? I have never heard of such a halacha, and don’t believe it’s valid.September 5, 2018 10:27 am at 10:27 am #1587522GadolhadorahParticipant
Use common sense. There are ways of neutering animals that are painless and do not create any inyan of tsar ba’alei chayim. Where such actions serve the interests of both the animals and the human population, it would seem a no-brainer. Imposing harm on an animal for no purpose other than some sick psychic satisfaction to a person is obviously assur per Halacha and most likely a violation of state and local criminal animal cruelty laws.September 6, 2018 8:14 am at 8:14 am #1588091
Gadolhadorah, neutering animals is an issur de’oraisa, just like eating pork. That it’s painless is irrelevant, and so is that it serves the interests of both the animals and the human population.
Imposing harm on an animal for no purpose other than some sick psychic satisfaction to a person is not “obviously” assur a priori; that is precisely what the Torah comes to forbid with עזוב תעזוב. Without that pasuk it would not be assur.
That doesn’t mean we would do it; a normal person doesn’t *want* to do such things. Even permitted cruelty, such as pulling a feather from a live bird just because you couldn’t be bothered getting up and finding or buying one from a dead bird, is something no normal person would do. But it would be a personal preference, not a halacha.September 6, 2018 9:21 pm at 9:21 pm #1588792ToiParticipant
@GH- “…no brainer.” The irony of this comment cannot be overstated.
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