Hallel with Bracha on YH?

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  • #1723722

    Yabia Omer
    Participant

    Yom Haatzmaut. Thoughts?

    #1724041

    Little Froggie
    Participant

    Like an Esrog. הדר משנה לשנה.

    Wasn’t all that can be said, said already.

    Wasn’t all that could be fought about, fought about.

    This topic is as old as the Coffee Room. (Actually one of its main pillars!!!) In fact that’s how you gauge that another year has passed. Like the rings in the bark of a tree. Another year… another round…

    #1724069

    lakewhut
    Participant

    If you are saying hallel on Y”H, can you play music, being that it’s during the Omer?

    #1724082

    I do not say halel and I dont skip tachnun.

    #1724073

    midwesterner
    Participant

    LW: Mi she’achal shum v’reicho nodef, yachzor v’yochal shum v’reicho nodef?

    #1724113

    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Depends where you daven

    #1724119

    Health
    Participant

    YO – With Bibi in charge – you’d be saying it for the destruction of the Medina. I can’t believe that a “Right Wing” Gov. is more left than Blue & White & Labor! He’s the biggest Wimp Ever.

    #1724187

    Dr. E
    Participant

    Sounds like you already have a canned answer for two questions you will be asked after 120.

    #1724178

    lakewhut
    Participant

    Health, you need help

    #1724216

    cj
    Participant

    To Yabia omer: Hacham Ovadia Yosef (1920-2013) was asked on different occasions about Hallel on Yom Ha’atzmaut. Hacham Ovadia writes that having Eretz Israel is not considered a miracle that is above nature like Hanukah was. Many soldiers had fallen during the establishment of the State and therefore it is not a revealed miracle. Hacham Ovadia continues writing that Eretz Israel today is a secular country and therefore many Orthodox Jews do not recite Halllel on this day.

    (On the other hand, Israel is a scion for spirituality. It is filled with Yeshivot, Kolellim, synagogues and learning centers.

    Therefore, if someone wants to recite Hallel on Yom Ha’atzmaut, he may do so without a beracha preferably at the end of Tefillah.)

    #1724249

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Don’t use initialisms you have to explain.

    #1724248

    Yabia Omer
    Participant

    R’ Yosef Messas, R’ Baruch Toledano, R’ Moshe Malka and R’ Shalom Messas all say to do Bracha.

    #1724334

    YO:based on your latest addition to this thread why did you start the thread in the first place?

    #1724260

    If you daven b’yechidus – do as the minhag of your family (many posters wrote about the importance of keeping family minhagim), BUT if davening in a minyan, then It depends on the shul/minyan,, you see, one must not be poresh min ha’tzibur, so if the shul you daven in says hallel, you must also, likewise, a shul that doesn’t say hallel, you must not say it either. Regarding the brocha, one must answer amen on a bracha, and when the chazon says the brocha and you answer amen, you are yotzeh with his brocha, so no need to say a brocha yourself.

    #1724267

    Health
    Participant

    YO – It sounds like all Sefardy Rabbis. That’s because the Arab lands, where they came from, even Israel is better than Arab countries!

    #1724278

    Joseph
    Participant

    “R’ Yosef Messas, R’ Baruch Toledano, R’ Moshe Malka and R’ Shalom Messas all say to do Bracha.”

    All of them together don’t come close to Chacham Ovadia Yosef.

    #1724309

    american_yerushalmi
    Participant

    Rav Elyashiv zt”l is known to have said on several occasions, “I can’t think of a greater ‘bracha le’batala’.”

    #1724310

    akuperma
    Participant

    Just like we did for Shabsai Tvi’s birthday?

    #1724402

    DrYidd
    Participant

    there are many opinions. ROY ztl is likely unaware of the number of Jews killed in the Maccabean wars. I do not make a Beracha on the recitation of Hallel like my rabbeim, but would never be caught dead in a shul that says tahanun. at the very least one should be nohaig like Ben-Gurion – no Hallel and no tahanun and no davening :).

    #1724489

    REb: Most people make there own brocha on hallel. And yes the shul that I grew up in and the shul I daven now says tachnun.

    #1724492

    DrYidd: My rabbeim did not say hallel but did say tachnun so like you i am following there lead.

    #1724493

    Yabia Omer
    Participant

    “All of them together don’t come close to Chacham Ovadia Yosef”.

    Joseph, says who? Do you really think that a guy who spends his time on YWN such as yourself is at a level to know who is a greater Rav than the other?

    It’s not about who is greater than whom. It’s that there are different opinions and all should be respected.

    #1724503

    Joseph
    Participant

    We say a kapital to daven for the imminent and peaceful dissolution of the state.

    #1724510

    DaMoshe
    Participant

    Chacham Ovadia Yosef held to say Hallel without a bracha (see Teshuvot Yabia Omer 6:41)

    #1724516

    lakewhut
    Participant

    “I do not make a Beracha on the recitation of Hallel like my rabbeim” because you are an apikores

    #1724548

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    In Yabia Omer above it says that Rav Tzvi Frank Zt’l did not say Hallel on YH.

    #1724549

    PentulaYid
    Participant

    First off, to answer the question about suspending Omer observances, I asked a senior rabbi at Machon Meir and he said that you can suspend them on YH. If that’s a trusted enough source for you, then there you have it. As far as Hallel goes, my “official” policy is to say it without a bracha, but I’ve found that I get so swept up by the occasion when I’m in a minyan that says it that I wind up saying it as well. Rabbi Soloveitchik recommended saying it after davening without a bracha. My personal opinion on these matters is that their are old machlochuses from Rabbis of yesteryear that are not particularly relevant nowadays and the independence of Israel is unquestionably a huge event in Jewish history. If you want to get technical about it, it’s the most independence Jews have had since first temple times. There’s no shame in recognizing that Hashem has opened up some huge channels for us to bring in the Messianic age. Enjoy.

    #1724551

    apushatayid
    Participant

    the neturai karta will be saying kinnos.

    #1724577

    lakewhut, why is s/he an apikores for not making a brocha on hallel, maybe he is simply a shoteh? Is it one of the 13 Ikrim to make a bocha on hallel?! Further, he says he is following his rabbeim, are you saying that they too are c”v apikursim?! On what basis???

    #1724604

    lakewhut
    Participant

    Because in general, he says things that are fitting of an apikores

    #1724616

    Eli Y
    Participant

    “I do not make a Beracha on the recitation of Hallel like my rabbeim” because you are an apikores

    Thanks for the chuckle!

    #1724621

    midwesterner
    Participant

    Wow!! I think I agree with RG for maybe the first time! It bugs me when people call things apikursus, when they are just wrong, stupid or ignorant. Not every megaleh panim batorah even shelo kehalacha is automatically apikursos. No reason to fire off a nuclear weapon when a fly swatter will do the trick.

    to PY: Any rabbi who says you can suspend hilchos aveilus for YH is probably not a trusted enough source for most people on this forum. For sure not the ones you’re trying to market your ideas to.

    #1724648

    jdb
    Participant

    There is an old minhag that goes back hundreds of years that communities said hallel on the day that they saw a yeshua, and continued saying hallel to commemorate and thank HKBH.

    Forget politics. Most gedolim see the modern day return to EY as an amazing thing. If you live in a place that says hallel, say it with pride. If you don’t, remember to be thankful to HKBH for what we have and for those who have their lives to make it possible.

    #1724694

    Health
    Participant

    APY -“the neturai karta will be saying kinnos”

    They don’t have time – they’re too busy Demontrating against the Medinah!

    #1724755

    charliehall
    Participant

    The machloket is between Rav Ovadia Yosef z’tz’l and Rav Shlomo Goren z’tz’l. Rav Yosef said to say Hallel without a Bracha and Rav Goren to say Hallel with the bracha. Communities may follow either.

    #1724783

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    What about not saying it? As mentioned the Yabia Omer above says that Rav Pesach Tzvi Frank zt’l did not say it.

    #1724793

    The chasid
    Participant

    Chas veshulem

    #1724817

    baal shita
    Participant

    Goren is not a מאן דאמר as u know he was also wing matir mamzerim and fake gerim all the gedolim came out against him

    #1724820

    american_yerushalmi
    Participant

    Most shuls in Israel in 1949 — the first year after the declaration of Israel — recited Hallel on the the 5th of Iyar. Most likely not at the Chazon Ish’s minyan, and among the Toldos Aharon chassisim. They were grateful for being saved the previous year from oblivion. In Yerushalayim, in particular, the battles often raged around many of the old frum neighborhoods.
    After 70 years, this practice is not found among too many Chareidim anymore. People who don’t live here, and even many who do, do not realize the horrifying depths to which much of secular Israeli society has descended. Huge swaths of this population have become Hebrew-speaking goyim, very many with the lowest of the low moral standards. One occasionally hears reference to the “strongest LGBT-state in the Middle East…..” r”l. These degenerates already have an unbelievable array of “rights” under Israeli law, and are working feverishly to try to gain even more. This is a situation that even 15 years ago would have been unimaginable here. They have penetrated into much of public secular life here, and into the army (from which they used to be rejected). We have just read the parshioyos in the Torah what Hashem thinks about this, and other forms of perversion. This evil element here in EY is causing Hashem to make EY “vomit us out of the land.” So, they are actually a national security risk, just like someone who spies for the enemy. Yes, there is much Torah learning here throughout EY, but most of this is despite the medina — not because of it. If the secular leaders had their way, most would evince a Yair Lapid-type of attitude toward Hashem and His Torah. So, while we need to constantly be grateful to Hashem for all the good, this does not have to include Hallel, and certainly not with a bracha, a practice that nearly all gedolei Yisroel nowadays do not sanction. Who wants to praise the rampant chilul haTorah that is burning like a wildfire throughout the country?

    #1724823

    takahmamash
    Participant

    I said a (mostly) Shabbat morning P’sukei D’zimra, and Hallel (in it’s proper place in davening) with a bracha.

    #1724753

    ccb45
    Participant

    Bobover Rebbe ZT”L once said based on this subject: Hallel zol men zugen; KINUS darf men zugen

    #1724821

    Avi K
    Participant

    Charlie,

    RO’s pesak was only for those Sephardim who don’t say a beracha when it’s a minhag (some say לקרוא את ההלל and לגמור את ההלל on the הלל שלם). RG, on the other hand, considered it a combination of Torah and rabbinic obligation in accordance with the Chatam Sofer (Orach Chaim 208) who writes:
    “Commemorating the miracles which saved us from death which occurred on Purim, Chanuka, and the days enumerated in the Megillat Ta’anit is certainly mi-de’oraita… However, the quality and amount of commemoration is mi-derabbanan.”

    For a general discussion see Yom Ha-Atzmaut and Yom Yerushalayim by Rav David Brofsky on the website of Yeshivat Har Etzion (from which the above quote was taken).

    #1724872

    Talmidchochom
    Participant

    No doubt in my mind that saying hallel on YH was a spontaneous reaction to an admittedly very joyous and happy event. However, it is not clear that gedolei Yisroel of that era were consulted nor had the authority to change the Seder Hatefillah. Consequently, at a minimum there are some very weighty Halachik issues here.

    #1724886

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    According to the Yabia Omer 6,41 saya to say Halel after davening without a bracha.

    #1724912

    Talmidchochom
    Participant

    No one can have any rebuttal to this psak. It is saying tehillim.

    #1724915

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    “If you are saying hallel on Y”H, can you play music, being that it’s during the Omer?”

    I can assure you that roughly 0% of the people observing “Y”H” are makpid on avoiding recorded music during the omer.

    #1724962

    DaMoshe
    Participant

    Neville – you are incorrect. I avoid most music during sefirah (I was taught that classical music is permissible, as is slow music which won’t lead to dancing), and I observe Yom haAtzmaut.

    #1724968

    Neville – I observe YH yet am makpid on recorded music during sefira, even recorder Cappella without instruments, since the machine playing the singing it IS in itself an instrument. Indeed there is no heter to play a musical instrument (call it radio, cd player or music box) that plays musical sounds of people singing. I keep the entire sefira (except lag b’omer) because I believe there is a need to be machmir, especially due to the tzoros Yidden had during these times when Jewish blood flowed like water and women were violated (via Crusaders and expulsions etc.)

    #1724970

    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    I can assure you that roughly 0% of the people observing “Y”H” are makpid on avoiding recorded music during the omer.

    You’re wrong, unless you count acapella

    #1724971

    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    I asked my Rav and he said no bracha

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