Haredim denounce Ben Gvir Temple Mount provocation

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  • #2154038
    ToShma
    Participant

    כותרת עיתון יתד נאמן: פרובוקציה בהר הבית; בליץ גינויים
    Headline in Yated: “Provocation at Temple Mount.”

    ינ

    #2154081
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Almost nobody noticed until it was over. What provocation?

    #2154146
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    nOmasorah: You are either playing really dumb or intentionally trolling. Videos of his political stunt are all over the media in the Arab world. Aside from intentionally going against the psak the majority of gadolei yisroel and most Chareidi Israelis, there will be fallout and potential violence from his actions.

    #2154163
    ToShma
    Participant

    Ben Gvir goes against the Halakha and there is no need to push it, even though the Arabs are totally wrong…. morally, historically.

    #2154214
    akuperma
    Participant

    Unless he has managed to become “Tahor”, and is going to the Har ha-Bayis to offer a korban, he has no business being there. All he does is it rub it in the noses of the Yishmaelim that they were conquered by the Zionists, which just encourages them to make mischief.

    When the Bayis is rebuilt, combined with the demographic impact of techiyas meissim, the Arabs will be sufficiently impressed to stand down (and all those who pride themselves on their well paying jobs in the Kenesset will be unemployed since Eretz Yisrael will finally be a Jewish medinah, and have no need for the Zionist politicians, including the self-proclaimed Chareidi members of the Kenesset).

    #2154288
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Akuperma,

    Anyone and everyone was allowed to enter the Beis Hamikdash. Even just to see it. There is no obligation to only come with a korban besides for a regel. The Beis Hamikdash was not some private social club masquerading as a shul, that your only tolerated if we approve of how you daven.

    #2154287
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    If it’s mutar or assur, is a taboo dispute.

    Nobody really cares, including the Arabs.

    It’s purely political.

    #2154342
    ujm
    Participant

    The Arabs have been violently objecting to Jewish access to Har Habayis for *centuries*.

    #2154347
    akuperma
    Participant

    One had to be tahor to enter the Beis ha-Mikdash. No one has been tahor for almost 2000 years. That is why the gedolim have consistently banned Yidden from entering the Beis ha-Mikdash, and why many areas of halacha impacted by the laws of tahorah/tumah are generally not observed and studied only as a highly specialized topic.

    And even if taharos weren’t enough, trying to start a war with the Muslims is not in the interests of the Yidden in Eretz Yisrael.

    Note that even if a dog is insane (i.e. mentally ill, even by dog standards), it remains unwise to kick him.

    #2154437
    Yabia Omer
    Participant

    Just out of curiosity, what about the D”L rabbonim who are matir?

    #2154445
    AviraDeArah
    Participant

    Yo – let them argue with their own rebbe; rabbi kook and his son, along with ALL of yhe chief rabbis, even the uneducated ones, forbade entering bar habayis.

    A kol koreh (easily available online) shows the zionist rabbis, like chief rabbi unterman, along with gedolei yisroel such as rav shlomo zalman, rav elyashiv(recognized at the time even though he was pretty young) and hundreds others who signed on to it explicitly forbidding entry, and saying that there’s a safek isur kares.

    The only official government rabbi who privately (but not publicly) gave a “heter” was shlomo goren, a man so dangerous that rav moshe – the only time in his life – threw him out of his house during the mamzerim controversy.

    Goren showed a willingness, much to the joy of the secular, to bend halacha to fit the medina, zionism, and their supposed needs. his being matir a mamzer gave the zionists the false idea that “where there’s a rabbinic will, there’s a rabbinic way.”

    And even he only told people privately.

    #2154467
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    Just out of curiosity, what about the OO “rabbonim” who celebrate S/S marraige in the the shuls publication?

    #2154472
    ujm
    Participant

    What about the OO rabbonim who are matir?

    #2154488
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    I think we all forget that we are dealing with politicians who are given a blanket waiver m’diorisah to ignore daas torah when it would conflict with their political objectives and messaging. Certain chareidi political hacks play games to create the optics of their serving as “Deputy Ministers” so they don’t appear to be directly participating in the government of an illicit medinah. Others find excuses to travel on shabbos or eat at locations serving treifus on the theory that their public service obligations and desire not to embarrass their hosts outweigh religious technicalities. Finally, others find the need to enter and participate in events at churches and mosques because of their professional obligations. A politician does what they need to do. In this case it wasn’t really necessary other than to score political points with a segment of his constituency who wanted to “make a point”.

    #2154505
    Shalom-al-Israel
    Participant

    Even if it’s a sfek-sfeiko, it is a deirayso matter.

    #2154524
    Happy new year
    Participant

    IT’S TIME TO go up and rebuild the Holy Temple – and restore ALL the Laws to their proper lace, finally.
    It’s been too long!
    The Time Is Now!
    Be prepared to fight for it

    #2154526
    yechiell
    Participant

    the real reason that rabbis forbid it, is that we don’t know where the kodshei kedoshim is. so you might be entering an area that only a kohen godol may enter.
    no one chapt this?

    #2154530
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant
    #2154531
    nishtdayngesheft
    Participant

    Dora,

    Are you accusing Chareidi politicians in EY, of “travel on shabbos or eat at locations serving treifus” Do you have a factual basis to allege this?

    #2154569
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    See also Yabia Omer YD (5,26) a detail discussion and to follow the Rambam over the Raavad not go there even if one toivels themselves.

    #2154719
    RBZS
    Participant

    Understand please that even the few rabbis who allow going onto Har HaBayis only allow it in certain restricted places and only after being tovel in a mikveh whcih is kosher for women and only after complying with all of the many restrictions women have when they go to the mikveh and only after making a berachah on the mikveh.
    NONE OF THESE was practiced by Ben Gvir who risked a chiuv kares R”l for supposed political gains.

    #2154843
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Ujm,

    The Arabs have been selectively objecting to Jewish access to Har Habayis for *centuries*.

    Fixed it for you. Your first historically accurate post about Zionism!

    #2154842
    mdd1
    Participant

    RBZS, how do you know he did not go to the mikve and went to the wrong areas? Also, not making a brocha does not invalidate the tevila.

    #2154871
    AviraDeArah
    Participant

    It’s great that the Arabs hate it when jews to to har habayis; it protects them from violating halacha. Does it matter that there may have been jews who went? There’s no evidence that gedolei yisroel ever did.

    #2154853
    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    N0mesora, although we are sure we can steer clear of the Makom Hamikdosh, I do think Akuperman is right that you can’t go into Har Habayis for a walk. They would be like קפנדריא.

    Also, being that no one looks out טומאות יוצאות מן הגוף, you would need ז’ נקיים.

    #2154859
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Yechiel,

    I think your way off.

    #2154861
    ujm
    Participant

    N0m: What nafka mina are you trying to make to the underlying point with your addendum?

    And what makes you believe your addition is accurate?

    #2155049
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Halevi,

    You would have to clarify why this pertains in the current day and the current situation. I know from one gaon who was involved in this issue that it is much more complex than people realize. But that’s not my point.

    My thinking is, that anyone who wants to go for political/societal reasons thinks it’s permitted. And those who assume it is forbidden by halacha, would not be going there anyways. So it’s purely a political debate. Not an halachic one. So let’s be honest about that.

    #2155046
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Ujm,

    The difference is that it negotiable. It’s not something that is intrinsically intolerable to the Arabs. The British were allowed all kinds of access until the Arabs realized that it meant something to them. It’s extortion. The same extortion that governs all Arab countries. It’s part of their value system. As alluded to in the Koran.

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