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Taken from a clip of a speech delivered in a Satmar camp:
“…the three oaths which Hashem has sworn us to,
about which oaths the Almighty said that if we will not
obey these oaths, he will let the non-Jews
kill us like deer of the field.
When the Zionists started the Second World War [ed: presumably a mistake], it is interesting that Hitler then said the same words.
The Zionists made a boycott against Germany, and then Hitler said that he would kill the Jews like deer of the field.
Has anyone here heard of that Hitler quote?
Yes, pretty much, but it was actually Goebbels ym’s who said it. When the secular American Jews started a boycott against Nazi Germany, Germany responded with a counter-boycott against Jewish goods. At the time Goebbels said “the boycott will be resumed… until German Jewry has been annihilated.” You can see him quoted in the first result for google search of:
AJHS The Anti-Nazi Boycott of 1933
No but I did read a quote from R’ Moshe Feinstein:
????? ?? ???? ????? ??? ???? ?? ??? ??? ?????? ?? ????? ???”? ?? ????? ?????? ??? ???????? ?? ??????? ???? ????? ????? ?????? ?????? ????? ?? ??? ????? ????? ??? ??????
I think the OP’s question was whether Hitler (or even Goebels) used the metaphor of “deer in the field” and thereby echoed the Gemara.
As an aside, the Nazis didn’t kills us like deer in a field (i.e. shooting us as individuals) they killed us en mass like chicken in a slaughterhouse.
Satmar just wants to blame Zionists for everything. In 1933, Zionists were working with Germany to try to get Jews to go to Palestine. The American Jewish Congress presumably led a boycott because of anti-Jewish sentiments and activities within Germany.
BarryLS1: It’s sad that you’re correct. Satmar needs to remember that Reb Yoilish himself was saved by a Zionist. Show some hakaras hatov!
The same Torah that says to have hakaras hatov also says not to speak lashon hara.
Randomex, I,m not sure I understand what you mean by ” ed: presumably a mistake “
Which editor is presuming that this was a mistake? You?
I’m guessing that whoever delivered the speech you’re quoting from, in a Satmar camp, was not making a mistake. The speaker wanted to say that the Zionists started the Second World War.
Whether the Zionists actually did so, is a different discussion.
But to me the intent of the speaker is clear.
The philosophy behind it is also quite clear to me.
Whether or not I believe that, is also a different discussion.
Randomex: I have researched extensively (after someone here mentioned it) and the only real places I can find a connection between the American Zionist boycott and the Holocaust is in a few pieces by some of the most virulent of antisemitic academics.
Hitler advocated and planned annihilation of the Jews in Mein Kampf long before any boycott.
Randomex:
From watching the video it definitely did not seem like a mistake. Also should I trust your translation over the subtitles provided?
wiceleceni (eichman’s man in Slovakia) told Rabbi Weismandel that when hitler heard of the boycott he got mad, fell on the floor in a temper, bit the carpet, and swore to kill every last one of them” the deer part was not recorded by Rav Weissmandel.
to you DaMoshe if someone was saved by a priest or nun do you think he should become a cathlic for hakaras hatov. i don’t even think he should sent the church an $18 check in gratitude!
Quote attributed to Rav Yisroel Yaakov Fisher, in a letter written by Mrs. G. Layosh to this week’s Mishpacha:
“People think that the Zionists saved the Satmar Rebbe, but in reality the Satmar Rebbe saved the Zionists.”
While most people who read Yeshiva World do not follow the Satmar derech, it would still be very wise to be careful not to speak disrespectfully about Rav Yoel, who was a Gadol Hador in every way. He was highly respected by many Gedolim who differed with him quite strongly.
yie: I’m not DaMoshe, but there’s definitely a large, large difference between showing appreciation to someone of a different religion who helps or saves you and converting to their religion out of gratitude. There were, in fact, many Jewish children who grew up in convents and monasteries during the Holocaust who afterward left, lived Jewish lives, but still had the utmost hakaras hatov to those who had risked their lives to help, whether that involved writing letters, visiting, gifts, etc.
There’s a big difference between rewriting history/maligning an organization which saved you and actually joining that organization. I mean, I take that back, there are some shades of gray in this world- pride should not mean that you can’t thank and appreciate the help of a group with whom you disagree!
DaasY,
There were many Yidden from the same part of Hungary/Romania that the Satmar Rebbe was from who survived those dark days, and found this whole chapter very painful. There were many who lost relatives and friends who, tragically, had been advised not to go to Palestine, and to stay in Europe. Most of these survivors are no longer with us. I therefore feel that this part of our history is best addressed with silence. We must not allow the events to be forgotten. We must remember, but without editorializing, judging and analyzing.
In a similar vein, I find it deeply hurtful to read articles attempting to rehabilitated Kastner, when those who were in Hungary at the time of his betrayal of his people, can no longer give testimony. The only ones who speak are a man who was eleven years old at the time, and his descendants!
Mrs Layosh is entitled to an opinion. But we don’t really know who saved whom. Or who may have prevented others from being saved. We have to know that the events were all from Shamayim, and respond as Aharon Hakohein did, to the great tragedy that befell him.
yerushalmi in exile: He planned on killing us all over a decade earlier. He published it. Why should a 2-day boycott (in response to the German one-day boycott of all Jewish goods) by a few hundred people have any effect whatsoever?
This is, frankly, a despicable lie whose sole purpose is to blame Jews with bad Hashkafos for 6 million murders. In an earlier thread I think I quite proved that the only source for this is a nut-job antisemitic professor who thinks Jews control all the armies, media, and money in the world. I don’t know why the moderators keep letting this antisemitic screed through. It’s nauseating.
I still agree with my own post!
I’m sure none of you are surprised.
But all this talk of dreams is reminding me of a story. I’m told by someone who was present and heard it happen, that it’s 100% true. And it’s a good story to believe:
A certain person often considered a Rabbi sat next to a genuine great Rav, Rebbe and Talmid Chacham at a simcha. He proceeded to tell this Rebbe all about various astonishing dreams he had, full of amazing predictions, and things that truly happened as he dreamed, and other marvelous happenings and coincidences that transpired in his Chalomos. The Rebbe listened politely for the duration. Then he turned to him and said (in Yiddish), “Reb X, I think perhaps you sleep too much.”
I think writersoul is correct about hakaras hatov. An example that comes to mind would be that after the whole incident with Alexander and Shimon Hatzadik (Yoma 69a) the Jews named their kids Alexander (as recorded by Josephus). Now perhaps one can argue that that was not because of hakaras hatov inasmuch as it was to gain favor with Alexander. But R’ Moshe assumes that it was hakaras hatov and that in fact that would be a proper manifestation of hakaras hatov.
Igros Moshe O.C. 5:10:
??? ?????? ???? ????? ??? ?”? ????? ???????? ???”? ????? ?? ??????? ??? ?????? ???? ???? ???? ?????? ?? ??? ??? ?? ??? ??? ???? ???? ????? ???? ????? ?? ???? ??? ???? ???? ????? ?? ????? ???? ?????? ??? ?? ?????
Interestingly, it seems that it was appropriate to do something which was a ???? as a display of hakaras hatov, so surely simply acknowledging a favor from someone (even of a different religion) would be ok.
I just watched the clip. The boy looks like he’s 12 years old. I’m not sure why some are darshening his words like a pasuk in Chumash. He easily could have confused Hitler with Goebbels or the quote of ‘kill the Jews like deer of the field’ with ‘until Jewry has been annihilated’.
As far as the boycott, I don’t think anyone doubts that it riled up the Germans. Of course the Nazis were a bunch of filthy murderers who hated the Jews from long before they came into power. But the boycott was a stick in their eye and gave them an impetus and a pathetic excuse to stir the pot against the German Jews now that they were in power and have the levers of government in their hands whereas they may not have been able to be so swift and brutal as they hoped without a pretext. It is never a good idea to poke your enemy in the eye. The boycott (which was publicly announced in front of 55,000 people in MSG and widely reported) and counter-boycott were much longer than a few days. And the German reaction to the boycott was the first overt official anti-semitic action passed in Germany.
And another example would be in this week’s parshah:
??? ??????? ??????? ???? ??? ??????? ????????? ??????? ?????? ?????????? ????? ????? ?????????? ????? ????? ???????? ???????
Rashi:
?? ???? ???? ??? ??? ?? ?? ?? ????? ??????? ????? ?? ??? ???? ??? ?????? ???? ???? ????? ???? ??? ????? ??? ??? ????? ???? ?????? ?????? ??? ?? ???? ??????? ???? ??? ?? ?? ?????? ??????? ????? ????? ??? ???????? ?????? ?? ????? ??? ??? ????? ??? ????? ???? ????? ???? ?? ???? ??? ????? ?????? ???? ???????? ?????
Lior: False. Learn your history. The boycott was in response to antisemitic German actions. And the rally in MSG was in 1937, long after the Germans had begun overtly discriminating against Jewish citizens.
I don’t think there’s much chiddush in the boy’s words (according to Randomex’ translation; I didn’t see it). The shittah of the Satmar Rebbe zt”l is easy enough to find by just looking at the hakdamah to Vayoel Moshe (I googled and found a free download).
B’ikkar, he holds that our enemies were empowered by our attempted violation of the three shavuos. The historical cause and effect is kind of irrelevant when viewed through R’ Yoel ztl’s perspective
Actually there were rallies in multiple states and in multiple countries (including Australia, the UK, France, Tunisia, Turkey, Argentina, and Brazil) in early 1933 against the already nasty persecution of Jews by the Nazis in Germany, which had begun even before Hitler yemach shemo had become Chancellor on January 30. It was mostly the thugs of the SA but in early April 1933 the Nazis were putting their evil plans into law. The big step for the Nazis was the Enabling Act of March 23, 1933, which was enacted with the positive votes of every non-socialist member of the German parliament (and opposed by every socialist member of the German parliament, most of whom would be in concentration camps, in exile, or dead within six months). The Enabling Act made Hitler a dictator with neither checks or balances other than the 85 year old feeble and nearly senile President Hindenburg, who actually hated Hitler yemach shemo. But Hindenburg died in August 1934 and the rest is history.
The largest American rally was at Madison Square Garden on March 27, 1933, four days AFTER the Enabling Act. Geatured speakers included Al Smith, former Governor of New York (Irish Catholic); William Green, President of the American Federation of Labor (Welsh); Bernard Deutsch, President of the American Jewish Congress; Reform Rabbi Stephen Wise; US Senator Robert Wagner (German Catholic); New York Mayor John Patrick O’Brien (Irish Catholic); Episcopal Bishop William Manning; Methodist Bishop Francis McConnell; and at least one other Christian minister and nine Jewish lay leaders. Governor Herbert Lehman (Jewish) had to stay in Albany on state business but addressed a large rally there. It is clear that this and other rallies were in RESPONSE to the Nazi atrocities, not a cause of them.
Sam: The boycott was in response to unofficial antisemitic actions of the Nazis. It was a horrible response, though. It accomplished nothing other than to give them a pretext to officially incorporate antisemitism as official government policy with sanction of the law itself. And the consequences for (initially) German Jewry was devastating. The anti-German protest at Madison Square Garden with 55,000 people when the Germany boycott was initiated occurred on March 27, 1933. The official reaction of the German government was thereafter.
Planning a Jewish government in E.Y. before Moshiach.
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