June 7, 2012 4:30 pm at 4:30 pm #603712
I am planning to wear a black hat for the first time this Shabbos. I guess I am not a “wannabe” anymore. Any tips?June 7, 2012 5:00 pm at 5:00 pm #879164
I mean that sincerely. I am not up to that level, even though people tell me I should get a black hat. While I dont judge others who want to wear a black hat who are not yeshivish, for me, I think a certain level of competence in learning has to be achieved to wear one.
While some may think its no big deal, to me, I think it is fantastic that you are doing this, and it says a lot about your growth and commitment, which benefits all of us.
The only tip I have is to wear it with the brim down. It look sharp. I think the brim up and the hat sitting on the back of the head is not as cool.
Have the best Shabbos ever, and enjoy your black hat!
: )June 7, 2012 5:02 pm at 5:02 pm #879165WolfishMusingsParticipant
Wear it on your head. 🙂
Wear it in good health.
The WolfJune 7, 2012 5:05 pm at 5:05 pm #879166No One Mourns The WickedMember
Wow, this is a huge step…I guess just be prepared to get some looks because that’s what people do, yenta…
Ignore it and bask in the spritual growth.June 7, 2012 5:06 pm at 5:06 pm #879167☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
Get one of those raincoats with the big hoods attached so you don’t get it ruined.June 7, 2012 5:26 pm at 5:26 pm #879169147Participant
It is very hot, so wear a black straw hat until after Labor Day, so that you don’t get any headache from a heavy felt hat on your head in hot & humoid temperatures.June 7, 2012 5:49 pm at 5:49 pm #879170Feif UnParticipant
Be prepared for disappointment as you realize that you don’t feel any holier with it on.June 7, 2012 5:58 pm at 5:58 pm #879171ronreznickMember
No One Mourns The Wicked – What is spiritual about a black hat?June 7, 2012 5:59 pm at 5:59 pm #879172musser zogerParticipant
Be careful for sudden gusts of wind, so your black hat doesn’t fly down the street.June 7, 2012 6:00 pm at 6:00 pm #879173
Are you the guy who came up with:
1. Remove food from package before eating
2. Add ice for cold drink
3. To put camera down, see page 5
4. Wear hat on your head
5. Lather then rinse
6. Place socks on either foot.
How aMUSing…. : DJune 7, 2012 6:10 pm at 6:10 pm #879174
I have nothing against wearing a hat. I wear one myself. I have a problem with thinking that wearing a hat requires a certain “Madreiga” or that there is an inherent spiritual growth or something better about wearing a hat.June 7, 2012 6:13 pm at 6:13 pm #879175
“No One mourns the wicked”-why is there so much spiritual growth from just a hat-soemthing which just affects your outer appearance? I see the maalah to wearing one-but what spiritual growth is there?June 7, 2012 6:43 pm at 6:43 pm #879176
I do not accept or believe there is spiritual growth simply because one wears a black hat. To say that is to imply that those who do not wear a black hat, do NOT have spiritual growth. It is PRECISELY that elitist and non-inclusive thinking that bothers me so much. Plenty of guys do not wear hats at all, and are spiritually deeply connected to learning and living Torah.
Blackhatwannabe – Mazel tov on ALL your spiritual growth, however it manifests itself. If you b’davka want to manifest it in a concrete way by wearing a black hat, kol hakavod.Just make sure that what is INSIDE your head matches the symbol of what is ON your head, and that will be the spiritual growth that you seek.June 7, 2012 7:14 pm at 7:14 pm #879177lakewhutParticipant
BTguy, it doesn’t take a genius to figure out how to put a hat on.June 7, 2012 8:44 pm at 8:44 pm #879178
I think that wearing a hat for Davening or Shabbos is important and can be used as a statement for oneself that he is looking to grow in his observance and the level of his observance. It does not necessarily achieve a spiritual growth, but can help create this statement.June 7, 2012 9:48 pm at 9:48 pm #879179No One Mourns The WickedMember
OK, OK, OK…..everybody calm down and stop hollering ‘elitist’ at me.
I simply was wishing blackhatwannabe best wishes for the decision he has come to. His screen name clearly states that he has been wanted to do this for awhile and if he posted about it, it is obviously something that he is confident in, but at the same time asking our advice. I apologize if I offended anyone with my comment. All I meant to say is this is obviously a new level for him and I wish him much contentment in his growth. Is it spiritual? Yes, in a way it is. The black hat is NOT REPRESENTATIVE of inner spiritual levels. That is not something that anyone but the individual can judge. It is merely a symbolic to a new (read: different) level of doing things.
That’s all.June 7, 2012 11:02 pm at 11:02 pm #879180musser zogerParticipant
a lot of newbie black hatters play so much with ttheir hat brim you sort of wonder how much kavanah they have. Also I notice people put their black hat on seforim. What is that all about?June 7, 2012 11:07 pm at 11:07 pm #879181
Thanks everyone any other tips?June 7, 2012 11:47 pm at 11:47 pm #879182simcha613Participant
When I was younger I decided to wear a black hat “lekavod Shabbos.” I guess I felt that where I was in my spiritual growth, it was kedai for me to start wearing it. As I got older, I realized that I didn’t need it for kavod Shabbos because I already wear a suit (something I don’t wear during the week) for Shabbos. I also felt, that it gave me a sense of ga’avah, like “I’m frummer than you” when I wore it in places that it wasn’t the norm. I felt like I was losing more than I was gaining. I stopped wearing my hat in shuls where it’s not the norm, and I wear it when I go to places where it is the norm.June 8, 2012 1:46 am at 1:46 am #879183lakewhutParticipant
musser zogger there could be a lot worse things.June 8, 2012 2:44 am at 2:44 am #879184ItcheSrulikMember
Take it off when you go inside; wearing a hat in doors is usually considered rude. This obviously doesn’t apply to shul since you probably bought it for shul.June 8, 2012 9:02 am at 9:02 am #879185NechomahParticipant
Remember to put hang it up or put it on a shelf somewhere when you take it off for the meal. Make very sure not to put it on the couch especially if there are children present or else you will be wearing a black pancake afterwards.
Just as an aside, I did hear once that there are problems on Shabbos with fixing a smooshed hat.June 8, 2012 11:41 am at 11:41 am #879186
Itche: That’s the second time you’ve posted that wearing a hat indoors is rude. To you I respond Taz O.C. 8:2.June 8, 2012 12:51 pm at 12:51 pm #879187
So, you are saying you did not need my advice? lol
You made a mistake. I said black hats look sharper with the brim down (and I hope you are not taking offense to that..),
It was the post beneath mine which gave the sterling advice of, and I quote, “Wear it on your head :)”, end quote. You cant beat that for geniusian advice, can you? ; )
Also, I hear the people who say a black hat is not attached to any particular madreiga. I agree.
But for me, and where I came from, out of respect, I do feel a certain level of madreiga should be acquired.
Anyway, to get back on topic, blackhatwannabe, and everyone else. Have a great Shabbos!!!June 8, 2012 3:09 pm at 3:09 pm #879188
BTGuy: You are giving religious meaning to an object that has no inherent meaning. You are treating a black hat as if it has a level of Kedushah. And it should be the opposite. It should be a Tashmishei Mitzvah, not Kedushah. And if one (mistakenly, if one doesn’t ignore the first word of the Mishnah B’rurah’s sentence) that a hat is necessary for Davening then even the lowest of the low should not be exempt from that.June 8, 2012 3:26 pm at 3:26 pm #879189
As always, I respect your opinion.
But to me, a black hat is just one of the symbols representative of entering the portal of Torah Judaism. While the hat, like a kippa, holds no kedusha on it’s own, it is, nontheless, indicative of a symbol of Jewishness on a Torah level and dignifies a Torah environment.
It would ring dissonant to me to see the the same attire, including a black hat as part of the conservative, reform, and reconstruction environments.
That is just my reaction. For the record, I know some who wear a black hat who are new and very weak in their learning and ability to daven. I do not look down upon them at all.
In a way, it’s like when I was starting out and called up for an aliyah. I really questioned my worthiness to be called up. Maybe I am wrong for that.
But the main point is that blackhatwannabe be should wear his new black hat with great enjoyment, and enjoy the best Shabbos! Someday soon, iy”H, I would like to do the same.June 8, 2012 8:21 pm at 8:21 pm #879190yitayningwutParticipant
musser zoger – i think the logic is that if my hat can go on top of my head kol shekein it can go on top of seforim…June 8, 2012 10:45 pm at 10:45 pm #879191
A hat is a covering for the head. A Sefer is a SEFER. I would never put an article of clothing on top of a Sefer. Exception might be my husband’s Tallis (not suer if that is permitted however), but I would reason out that it has its own kedusha from the tzitziyos. Hats are not kadosh.June 8, 2012 11:21 pm at 11:21 pm #879192
Oomis: A Tallis (and Tzitzis) have no Kedushah. They are Tashmishei Mitzvah. One should not put Tashmishei Mitzvah on top of Tashmishei Kedushah.June 10, 2012 2:43 am at 2:43 am #879193shlishiMember
Sam – How do you explain the practice of putting a Talis over a Sefer Torah?
A hat is a indication of ones madreiga in as much as wearing a yarmulka is.June 10, 2012 2:48 am at 2:48 am #879194simcha613Participant
It seems to me that if a person got to the “black hat spiritual level” without one, he probably could get to the next level without a black hat too. I don’t know why a person needs to “show off” his level of frumkeit to other people. Why is there such a need to stand out? Your relationship with Hashem is between you and Hashem alone and no one needs to know where you stand (with a possible exception being a Rav who should dress differently than his tzibbur to command respect). If you’re in a place where the norm is to wear it, then wear it. If the place isn’t the norm, why is it necessary? Again, why the need to show everyone else what spiritual level you feel that you’re on?June 10, 2012 3:35 am at 3:35 am #879195147Participant
This Shahbbos was very hot, and I wore my white straw hat, which is here to stay until Labor day, and even thereafter, if the heat persists thereafter.June 10, 2012 4:32 am at 4:32 am #879196YW Moderator-42Moderator
I wore a hat this Shabbos.June 10, 2012 5:00 am at 5:00 am #879197
So did I 🙂June 10, 2012 7:51 am at 7:51 am #879198YW Moderator-42Moderator
We must be twins. Are you French?June 11, 2012 1:13 pm at 1:13 pm #879199
Hey blackhatwannabe…how did it go?
I hope you (and everyone else) had a great Shabbos! : DJune 11, 2012 2:22 pm at 2:22 pm #879200
A hat is a indication of ones madreiga in as much as wearing a yarmulka is. “
AIn’t necessarily so. Sometimes it is indicative of what one WANTS others to think about his madreiga. I know guys who wear the black hat, because their parents think they won’t get good shidduchim otherwise.June 11, 2012 9:06 pm at 9:06 pm #879201
it was fine…lots of comments…too many hockers was raining a lot over Shabbos so had trouble keeping it clean Also couldnt figure out how to put on straight on my head and probably on my forehead Overall I am glad I did it for Kavod shabbos and yom tov still need to decide if I want one for the week or not later in lifeJune 11, 2012 10:44 pm at 10:44 pm #879202
Shishi: A Tallis may only be put on top of a Sefer Torah in a case where it’s a Kavod for the Torah (meaning it would be a Bizayon to be left sitting uncovered).
Interestingly enough, your comment made me realize that public Taleisim in Shul probably also have a Din of Tashmishei Kedushah because they are occasionally used to cover the Sefer Torah.
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