HaToirah Chosa al MeMoinam Shel Yisroel
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Tagged: Economic Downturn . Saving money
- This topic has 39 replies, 11 voices, and was last updated 1 year, 7 months ago by Reb Eliezer.
October 18, 2021 4:54 pm at 4:54 pm #2017240
As a poshute Yid looking to help others, I would like to post to the Oilam, to please watch over your money. We’ve been through economic meltdowns where people have lost fortunes, Moisdois have had difficulty surviving etc. Right now many are in places and positions of plenty. Please save your money, act with prudence, put away money for your families. It pains me to see the fortunes squandered, as the wheel of fortune and misfortune rotate.
We all know there will be another economic downturn, though none of us know when. It may be vicious. Real Estate, bonds, stocks are all at historically highly over valued prices, according to many experts.
Please for everyones sake. Take heed before it’s too late.
Thank YouOctober 18, 2021 8:52 pm at 8:52 pm #2018191Yabia OmerParticipant
If you pronounced every cholam as “oy”, why not Chosa as choisa?October 18, 2021 9:07 pm at 9:07 pm #2018216
Because there’s no cholam in chasa. It’s two kematzim. It’s a rashi in chumash. I think it’s a gemara too. The quote is in past tense. I think it’s from parshas metzora when the cohen tells the baal habayis to remove his belongings before he is declares the house tameiOctober 18, 2021 9:37 pm at 9:37 pm #2018227
@tothepoint — Thank you for this essential advice. Can you please, specifically, advise me how to save my money, exactly what prudence I should engage in as well as what I should do with my overpriced real estate and stocks/bonds.
Yasher Koach!!October 18, 2021 10:53 pm at 10:53 pm #2018263
I am not an economic advisor, please seek out advice from someone you trust.
My intention was not to offer specific economic advice, but to remind us all of our feelings in 2008, when all of us said to ourselves we would never risk so much capital again, we would be conservative and prudent. As the time goes on, and everyone drinks the cool aid, we forget. How much pain and suffering can be avoided, if we internalize this.
Such a waste of good Yiddishe gelt … such a pity … Chevra think about it !October 19, 2021 12:01 am at 12:01 am #2018289
> but to remind us all of our feelings in 2008,
there is indeed a theory that crashes come at about every 20 years – when there is a new generation of financial advisors who do not believe that a crash can really happen again. Difference between personal experience and intellectual knowledge. We have a lot of Torah on that – that Noah believed and did not believe that flood is coming …October 19, 2021 12:48 am at 12:48 am #2018292
I feel passionate about this.
We need to scream it from the rooftops, “Yidden save your money, the good times won’t last forever, do it for yourself ,your families and your communities”.October 19, 2021 12:49 am at 12:49 am #2018291
See Mr shiller’s recent article [author of the Shiller index] where he did a study of people today who believe if the Dow falls 3% in one day that translates into a buying opportunity, the results of the study were staggering. People have been trained by recent occurrences to buy buy buy.
We know this will eventually come to an end.
Human nature ie. greed tells us to keep going and make more and more.
But we pay for it in spades … the families, the communities, the moisdois, the Chesed Organizations, they will all suffer.
Look around, BH there are many who are prospering and G-D bless them, may they make more. But please lets not let it go to waste.October 19, 2021 1:32 am at 1:32 am #2018295
Nu, just bet against the market as a hedge. Buy some put options to bet against the sp500 and calls on the vxx. Problem solved.October 19, 2021 2:21 pm at 2:21 pm #2018582
I am not opposed to your idea of hedging, what’s important is that it shouldn’t remain as an idea, but actually get done.
Also, keep in mind not everyone is long the market, some are heavily invested in real estate, nursing homes, and other investments, there may not be one fix for everyone.
The important thing is the message gets out and people internalize it.October 19, 2021 3:36 pm at 3:36 pm #2018610Shalom-al-IsraelParticipant
Rosh Hashono 27a
re Shofarot.October 19, 2021 3:36 pm at 3:36 pm #2018611Shalom-al-IsraelParticipant
Re spelling in title: either:
or Momonom, (yek.)
or momoinom, (Yesh.)
Or Mumoimom. (ch ).October 19, 2021 3:47 pm at 3:47 pm #2018646
an example of successful market strategy:
When Rav Huna was told that he is wrong not paying workers who already stole from him and paid them: either vinegar (literal “stock”) became wine, or price (NYSE stock) of vinegar went up. Maybe there is an economic pshat here: when people behave positively towards each other, there is less mistrust in the market, and the stocks go up. Similarly, Yaakov “created markets” and also urged shepherds to work the full day honestly without mistrust to each other.
Another way to invest is in your own skills: have a profession/skills that is not tied to dealing with speculative things, like stock markets, but to something that can be useful in any market: plumbing, medicine, teaching and then you’ll survive the downturn.October 21, 2021 3:57 am at 3:57 am #2019185
I am not sure I understand the OP. Is he saying that people shouldn’t waste money on vacations in the middle of a pandemic. Who says if he saves this money in a bank or other investment vehicle it will be there when he needs it. Inflation and other market factors can reduce it’s value.
The money is his to spend it as he sees fit. He can spend it on himself, invest it for the future or give it away to charity.October 21, 2021 9:00 am at 9:00 am #2019234
What if you save dollars which goes on to lose all value? What if dollars don’t lose their value but the banks crash like during the Great Depression? I’m thinking about investing in gold.
It’s crazy times. I don’t feel comfortable investing anywhere. I think the US is heading down the same road Venezuela is on. I don’t think the market will just crash once and then recover, I think it’s the end of comfortable times in the US.October 21, 2021 4:52 pm at 4:52 pm #2019469
despite all our complaints, the rest of the world generally moves money into US during troubled times. But diversify, of course. Yaakov kept two camps when meeting Esav. We mention on Purim that this was the time of high risk because all Jews lived in the same empire.October 21, 2021 9:27 pm at 9:27 pm #2019557
I don’t think gold is good thing to safeguard your money. Demand for gold will decrease in case of a financial meltdown. Guns and ammo, now that’s something valuableOctober 24, 2021 8:35 am at 8:35 am #2020024
I am not sure what is meant by invest in guns and ammunitions. If you mean invest in the companies I think many of them will go bankrupt. If you are saying buying actual guns there are restrictions as to weather you can even own guns in many of the communities where Jews live. Even those communities that allow it there are restrictions as to how many guns you buy. This is besides the hazard of a child or someone else misusing them.October 24, 2021 9:02 am at 9:02 am #2020059
Invest in art.October 24, 2021 9:34 am at 9:34 am #2020075
Is there a stable country that has frum infastructure, shuls, moisdos, etc. to invest in real estate at this time? I don’t consider Israel to be stable due to the government which is run almost like a dictatorship. The US is out of course. I don’t think it will last much longer.October 24, 2021 10:48 am at 10:48 am #2020097
Philosopher: Australia might be a good choice.October 24, 2021 12:29 pm at 12:29 pm #2020118
Ujm, is that a joke? The Australian government is worse than the Israeli government.October 24, 2021 1:56 pm at 1:56 pm #2020170
Philosopher: The UK is very accommodating lately, with few restrictions on personal freedoms. Perhaps that’s up your alley?October 24, 2021 4:51 pm at 4:51 pm #2020180
I meant to buy guns and ammunition. They will be in high demand and the value will rise significantly. Keep it in storage. I’m not aware of any limits. Yiu can buy them in New York state, just not in the 5 boroughs. Also in Connecticut. You can’t bring them back obviously, so you would need to pay for storage.October 24, 2021 4:52 pm at 4:52 pm #2020182
Invest in Russia: there is a Jewish community, people don’t care about COVID, there’s a lot of real estate. To diversify, invest in Ukraine, Poland, Lithuania, all Russia’s enemies, have lots of tzadikkim buried, so one of them will work out
Ultimate diversification: Yerishalaim and Rome. One of them is always up according to financial advisors from gemora megillahOctober 24, 2021 4:54 pm at 4:54 pm #2020189
Judging by the Shul signs, התורה חסה translates as: your property is up for grabs.October 24, 2021 7:12 pm at 7:12 pm #2020229
HaLeVi: Please thank you brother, on my behalf, for bringing you back here.October 24, 2021 7:37 pm at 7:37 pm #2020247
Sure. And you thank him for those wonderful titles.October 24, 2021 10:36 pm at 10:36 pm #2020295
In New York Statw if you posses 5 or more guns and are unlicesensed you can be charged with intent to sell which is a felony. Guns and ammunition is highly regulated and each sale must be reported to the ATF. If your intention is to be a licensed gun dealer then everything is fine but if your plan is to sell them from the back of your trunk that is illegal. As far as selling it to a gun dealer, he wil probably pay you a fraction of what you paid for it. So where is the profit.October 25, 2021 12:46 am at 12:46 am #2020358
You’re big-league wrong about gold. It is famous among investors as the commodity that they rush to when instability and recession threaten. The expression the use is “flight to safety.”October 25, 2021 12:46 am at 12:46 am #2020359
I think he’s interpreting the expression “mamonam shel Yisrael” as meaning that individual Jews’ wealth actually belongs to the Jewish collective, Yisrael, and that Jew who puts it to personal use transgresses this principle. There’s something to be said for that but within limits.October 25, 2021 12:46 am at 12:46 am #2020360
Retract that. Ammo contains explosives. Storing it requires special protections by law and by common sense. Venishmartem.October 25, 2021 1:09 am at 1:09 am #2020381
Invest in potatoes. No matter what the economy this will not run out of style. And I’m speaking of model 0001.00.October 25, 2021 6:00 am at 6:00 am #2020399
Potatoes haven’t been around for that long, relatively speaking. They’re an American discovery. Wait till the next best thing comes out and displaces it.October 25, 2021 6:03 am at 6:03 am #2020428
Potatoes like all fruits and vegetables will rot over time so unless you are in the business of buying and selling them, they are a poor investment.October 25, 2021 11:43 am at 11:43 am #2020516
@Abba_S, good point. In war time, those who’ve invested in sugar made it big. But I was referring to the potato market rather than a particular potato.October 25, 2021 11:43 am at 11:43 am #2020517
Also, I Hayley to think that silver is more stable than gold. The fact that gold is going up shows that it isn’t stable. Now, putting money into something stable is not an investment per sè (or is it sé), but it is good for inflation protection.
All this is only an issue for the מרבה נכסים guys. My biggest investment was a laptop.October 27, 2021 6:34 am at 6:34 am #2021240
Haleivy, you have a point. Potatoes and I think corn as well seems like good commodities to invest in.October 27, 2021 6:35 am at 6:35 am #2021241
Gold has actually been pretty stable, the value has not changed much over a year and the value it gained in previous years were pretty much in tune with inflation.October 27, 2021 5:32 pm at 5:32 pm #2021568Reb EliezerParticipant
Yaakov Avinu went back to collect the pachim ketanim, small pitchers. For tzadikim their money is zahav tahor, pure money through no ganeiva. By the negah the house is emptied before declared tamei.
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