June 9, 2013 10:51 pm at 10:51 pm #609586
After graduating high school, Tznius has become a very hard mitzvah for me to keep. I have tried to wear skirts under my knees but as soon as I started college the sensitivity disappeared. I find it an every day struggle especially in the summer time to keep my skirts under my knees and loose. At home, my parents give me dissapionting looks which inevitably stears me away from working on my Tznius. I have tried expressing to them how hard this is for me. Any suggestions on how I can explain to them my situation? Any suggestions on how I can enhance my self esteem to become more Tznius?June 10, 2013 12:01 am at 12:01 am #958021
Just curious a non Jewish college or Touro or some other Jewish college program?June 10, 2013 12:31 am at 12:31 am #958022
It’s a non Jewish college I attended. However, there are many frum and not frum Jews who enroll. When I was there I hung out with a mix of Jewish “types”.June 10, 2013 12:48 am at 12:48 am #958023
If the college would have a dress code which would include longer skirts would you have this problem? If you would get yourself another few easy credits for wearing longer skirts would you have this problem? …are you perhaps ashamed of showing you are a frum girl. By the way are there any Moslems with their hair covered in this college who feel this way about covering their hair all the time???June 10, 2013 12:51 am at 12:51 am #958024Torah613TorahParticipant
After graduating high school, Tznius has become a very hard mitzvah for me to keep. I have tried to wear skirts under my knees but as soon as I started college the sensitivity disappeared. I find it an every day struggle especially in the summer time to keep my skirts under my knees and loose. At home, my parents give me dissapionting looks which inevitably stears me away from working on my Tznius. I have tried expressing to them how hard this is for me. Any suggestions on how I can explain to them my situation? Any suggestions on how I can enhance my self esteem to become more Tznius?
This is a great question. You are really growing in the right direction if this is what you are asking! I’ve been in a similar situation and while this wasn’t a struggle for me, other things were.
The problem is that you’re exposed to strong negative spiritual influences, without enough positive spiritual influences to act as a counterbalance. It’s not tznius per se.
Can you learn Torah regularly, in some form? Do you have time to daven? Do you spend time socializing with your frum friends? Can you spend time in the frum community in an enjoyable situation? These help people stay connected and sensitive.
Hatzlacha Rabba! I hope this helps!June 10, 2013 12:58 am at 12:58 am #958025
Well it makes sense that in a mixed environment you would get male attention for dressing a certain way so its hard to dress differently and risk losing that. Clearly a self esteem issue. Ill leave it to the girls to help you with the self esteem. However I am never surprised when I hear that people in coed colleges run into problems. In fact even in non coed college there are bad influences so it goes without saying that in such an environment your Yiddishkiet will be under attack. I would tell you that you should find a mentor like a teacher/Rebbitzen someone who you can be in touch with on a regular basis. I would also say that if you don’t regularly read some kind of Torah content (at least once a week when your mind is clear read a sefer in Hebrew or English for a significant amount of time and make an effort to inculcate it in your life) you will find yourself slipping in other areas as well very soon.June 10, 2013 1:39 am at 1:39 am #958026always strivingParticipant
I am in the same boat as you right now. I have found that really the most important thing in this situation is to have someone you can talk to and check in with, and I feel this way very strongly when any girls goes into a non jewish college or a college that is not alligned with their hashkafos. If you have a teacher from high school or seminary great! If not, please do not think you are a lost case! Pick a good solid neighbor or family friend! I know I decided that I wanted to talk to my teacher once a week even if the week was uneventful. Obviously things come up on both ends and often its a little bit less often, but it is still great! And I can almost guarantee you that if you have a solid person that you keep up with so many of these issues really fall into place and you just find yourself being kept on track even if you were not before! Its a hard place to be sometimes, but give yourself the tools to let the situation strengthen and not bring you down in any way!
Good luck!!!!June 10, 2013 2:24 am at 2:24 am #958027E-O-MParticipant
Your head is in the right place. Hashem will surely guide you on the right path. Cut your parents some slack, it’s almost impossible for you to understand how they feel.June 10, 2013 3:11 am at 3:11 am #958028
With all due respect, I daven shachris daily as well as Mincha (hope u are having a wonderful Rosh Chodesh;) ) I give tzedaka etc. I do not feel the need to expose other wonderful Mitzvos I do. However, I feel like you are judging me (and others who may be in the same boat as myself). My clothes do not define me. I am trying hard to work on my knee length because I know I should and want to be on the Tznius madrigah. Believe it or not I went to a frum school, I have frum friends,I go to shuirim just like Tznius girls. Just because a girl covers her knees DOES NOT mean she is frum. You could go to not mixed colleges, come from a frum home, live in a frum area and yet still wear skirts that are not the most modest….I hope you understand where I am coming from. Also, if my co-Ed college would give me a credit for being Tznius I probably would not take that class. This is something personal, I don’t need a reinforcement.June 10, 2013 3:19 am at 3:19 am #958029cinderellaParticipant
Let me tell you what someone once said to me.
Forget about why you have a hard time doing it. Stop making excuses. It is halacha. Think about it. Do you really want to be the kind of person who doesn’t care about halacha? A girl who doesn’t care about halacha- you know who she marries? A guy who doesn’t care about halacha.
You are ruining your reputation.You are showing the world you don’t care enough about halacha to keep it.
I get why it’s hard. I’m a girl too. But who cares if you feel prettier that way? It’s immature. Cover your knees. It’s halacha.June 10, 2013 3:37 am at 3:37 am #958030
I completely understand why it’s wrong. I know how imp. It is to be Tznius and how it can be detrimental to a girls/young woman’s/womans inner and outer soul. It’s not even the feeling of being pretty (not sure where you got that from to begin with…). It’s the fact that I feel uncomfortable wearing the calf length skirts. I either wear very long skirts or I wear skirts above my knee. I want to wear Tznuis skirts very badly but when I attempt to put it on I change my mind last minute. They don’t feel nor do they look the same.
Your right it is immature, that’s why it’s hard for me to do it. Same way a girl who is of marriage age needs to mature herself in order to deeply devote herself to dating. It’s tough. I’m legitimately asking and seeking advice. I know the Halacha. I need my parents to understand how hard this is for me and that I am trying. I have thrown out skirts that are considered too tight and fitting. It’s so unfortunate but when going on dates guys seem to have appealed to me not by just the company but also by the skirt. That is one reason as to why I threw them out ( besides the material being non- Tnius) ….sry went off tangentJune 10, 2013 4:13 am at 4:13 am #958031Machshiv TorahMember
This is especially for YOU.
PLEASE take time to read my post. These words are coming from my heart. I hope they will enter your heart.
First of all, I am blown away by your honesty and sincerity. Really. Although I am probably just about the same age as you (in my first few years of college), I have already had the opportunity to talk intimately with many young woman who are having struggles in the area of tznius. Seeing their raw pain in this struggle breaks my heart. They know deep down (if they are fortunate) what is the right thing to do, but the desire (almost subconcious!) to do the opposite is so strong! What always troubles me is that this is a mitzvah which is sooo important to women (and the yetzer hara knows that so he makes it verrrry difficult), but it’s so public!! You can’t hide what level you’re up to. It’s right out there in the open! Imagine if you’re exact level in tefillah or tzedakah was posted on a billboard for all to see? How embarassing! You would feel so pressured to improve! But would you improve? Probably not because most people do NOT perform well with pressure. It feels so ‘unfair’ that a woman’s level in tznius is so publicly known! Why, as I mentioned is it such an important mitzvah for women? (I don’t have a source for this, but some say it is equivalent to a man’s Torah learning – *If anyone knows the source for this, please post it.) Because a Jewish woman is sooo precious and sooo Holy, like a Sefer Torah, because her body has the potential to bring many more Holy Neshamos into this world (this is just one understanding…). If a Sefer Torah is so special, do we then open it up at all times, in public, so everyone can see it’s beauty? Do you keep your most expensive jewelry on display in the middle of you front yard or tucked away safely? Just as a Sefer Torah must be covered in a beautiful velvet cloth, and is then placed inside an Aron, and then behind a beautiful Peroches, so to a Jewish woman covers herself because she is so special and Holy.
If you only view this Mitzvah as “HALACHA!!! YOU MUST DO IT!!,” you will only succeed if you already have an EXTREMELY straight forward, no feelings way of thinking. If you have feelings connected to this Mitzvah, such as, “I want to feel pretty in my clothing,” then this approach will not work for you (and you can join the club!) However, that straight-forward, no feelings mindset may be necessary when you KNOW you need to, say, get rid of a skirt and there’s no time to dilly-dally until you “feel” up to it. But once you take that step and it becomes habit, it will only get easier from there.
Still sounds very difficult? I don’t blame you. But let me tell you my experience. My friends call me the ‘Tznius lady.’ Years ago, at the beginning of my teenage years, NOBODY would have called me that. I dressed just like many of the other girls in my class. Basically okay. Or so I thought. But at some point my eyes opened up and various messages from various people started finding their way into my heart and I had these random surges of energy to take those ‘big steps.’ And (cutting out several years worth of info here, for lack of time/space) here I am today, married to a real BEN TORAH (hence my screen name 🙂 ) and as tznius as can be. I did not all at once say, HEY! IT’S HALACHA! and viola! Nope. But Hashe-m was SUPER generous and sent me kind messengers who steered me in the right direction (I went back and thanked many of them YEARS later for the influence they had on me just by being an EXAMPLE for tznius). Now, I will daven for you that you get your ‘messages’ and that they are able to penetrate your heart, but until that happens, let me tell you what it feels like on the other end of the struggle: AWESOME!!!!!!!!! Yes, I do have some smaller struggles once in a while, like an adorable skirt in the store, or a shirt that became too tight… but I KNOW that I will NEVER be struggling with the things I struggled with years ago, (such as covering my legs! And tight T-shirts. Skirts that are a bit snug you-know-where – these last few examples where simply because I was a growing teenager having a hard time letting go of my cute clothing – it was HARD). It’s amazing – you feel so….. BIG! so HIGH and ELEVATED when your struggles (there always will be SOME) are on a TOTALLY DIFFERENT LEVEL(!!) than they used to be. And you KNOW there’s know going all the way back down ‘THERE.’ It feels VERY good. Take it from me – it’s definitely worth the climb. The view from ‘up here’ is fabulous!!
I don’t know exactly how you could contact me (Mods??) but I have a beautiful article on tznius, with many PRACTICAL tips and lots of POSITIVE ENCOURAGEMENT that I have already passed on to hundreds of people with very positive response. I would love to post it here and share with you, blonj, but it’s much too long. PLEASE try to get in touch with me – maybe just respond to my post and I’ll see it here??
BEST OF LUCK AND LOTS OF LOVE!June 10, 2013 5:16 am at 5:16 am #958032shoshy5Member
Do you mind if I ask your age? I really think I have a guy for you. He’s currently learning full time but isn’t makpid on skirt length.
I”m very serious.June 10, 2013 5:42 am at 5:42 am #958033Shopping613 🌠Participant
Look, 1st of all, everone has something thats hard for them. Example, for me, ive been around losts of bad influences growing up, but tzinyus has always been easy, i can never understand why you cant wear a long skirt….theyre comfortable and who cares what others think. Mini skirts…(i think, ive never worn one) sound tight and annoying and uncomfortable, plus they arent tzniyus…..but for you it is tznitus! !!! Kol hakovad that you really want to change! College, is not a very good place, one of the latest familyfirsts had a feature on how to get through it. If you can get a hold of it, the advice was really good
?????June 10, 2013 12:13 pm at 12:13 pm #958034
Wow Machshiv Torah I read your post and wow is all I can express. I want to thank you all (Especially always striving for your post). Today I woke up with a more positive attitude. I am Currently in graduate school actually, so I have already went through 3 years of undergraduate college. (Shoshy5- I amm 22 years old).
I am going to find a friend who can work on this Halacha of Tznius firstly, and secondly I am going to see how many days (hopefully weeks) I can stay away from wearing my skirts above my knees.
Today is day one and the skirt is not tight, not very short, and it’s black ( a less ostentatious color). Thank you all! If anyone has any other suggestions I would greatly appreciate it.
I still though need to figure out how to explain my strive for Tznius to my parents.
P.s. to Shopping 613, if college is such a “bad place” I wonder what you think of the outside world. I don’t live in a box nor do I live in a land filled with rainbows and flowers ( though I wish I did). Everyday is a struggle to keep Tznius wether I have a college class or not. Coming from high school to college was a huge change. I don’t want to blame my education. It’s the real world.June 10, 2013 1:04 pm at 1:04 pm #958035cinderellaParticipant
He’s currently learning full time but isn’t makpid on skirt length. I”m very serious
So what you’re saying is, he doesn’t care about halacha. Sounds like a lovely boy.
This strikes me as odd. People don’t apply the same leniencies to say, keeping Shabbos, as they do for tznius. I think that we spend a lot of time giving reasons why (and many of these reasons are garbage) that we forget that it is an obligation. Would you drive on Shabbos? No. Because in your head that’s non-negotiable. Same should go for tznius.June 10, 2013 1:26 pm at 1:26 pm #958036ToiParticipant
inner soul, outer sould, major kabbalah action going on.
full-time leanrner, doesnt care about skirt length. perfect shidduch. and they make fun of me for redding money to money.June 10, 2013 2:08 pm at 2:08 pm #958038
I am dating someone. He doesn’t pressure me about Tznius. I used to not cover my elbos sometimes. When I worked on that which I Baruch Hashem accomplished, he complimented me. Being with someone who will encourage you to grow is important. I think the comment about the guy was a joke from shoshy5….please let’s stay on the topic of the discussion I probed.
In addition, just because a guy is a learner (full time part time) doesn’t mean he follows all halachas. Tznius is for a woman more than a man. I’m not saying men don’t hav pe an obligation of it too, but this mitzvah and struggle of dress pertains more to a woman. If I dated someone who encouraged me to wear immodest clothes, it would be a lot more challenging, thankfully as I stated before, the guy I am current,y with understands I am not perfect and have a will and want to grow in this area.June 10, 2013 6:41 pm at 6:41 pm #958039
My friend had something like this a few years back and the first thing she did was throw out two of her skirts. She realized that no matter how much she WANTED to do something, in her case, if the michshol was in front of her every morning when she was getting dressed, it would all go out the window. She now brings a friend shopping with her to make sure all of her clothes is tzniusdig and makes sure that she doesn’t have that option anymore.
After a while, sometimes intentions aren’t enough. I can’t speak for your personal dilemma (I’m “biz lady”) but I know that when I was trying to lose weight for my cousin’s wedding, I got rid of all of my junk food. I couldn’t deal with having it all in front of me, no matter how strong-willed I decided to be about it.June 10, 2013 6:52 pm at 6:52 pm #958040🍫Syag LchochmaParticipant
writersoul – great post!June 10, 2013 7:08 pm at 7:08 pm #958041
Thanks! 🙂June 10, 2013 7:42 pm at 7:42 pm #958042VogueMember
I just had to make a trip to a local gemach because of the same issue. I only found two skirts that met my length requirements given my height, but one of them is a pencil skirt that if I sit in a car, might expose part of my leg if I get out even though its duty length, the other one needs to be tailored to make three inches shorter and the waist adjusted.June 10, 2013 7:46 pm at 7:46 pm #958043Machshiv TorahMember
Wow Machshiv Torah I read your post and wow is all I can express. I want to thank you all (Especially always striving for your post). Today I woke up with a more positive attitude. I am Currently in graduate school actually, so I have already went through 3 years of undergraduate college. (Shoshy5- I amm 22 years old)
You woke up with a more positive attitude? I think that is the most refreshing thing I have heard ANYONE say in a long time. We are all rooting for you! I hope Hashe-m helps you feel that positive feeling every single morning until you get to where you are hoping to get!
Side note, I was right! I’m exactly your age 🙂 22… Just finished my 3rd year.June 10, 2013 8:07 pm at 8:07 pm #958044
Oh, and a postscript, just bringing something up that I think is mucho important and kind of ignored-
I’m 5’1″ and I have a hard time finding cute skirts (for when courtesy dictates that I don’t wear a biz) that aren’t above my knee. My sister is 5’9″ and she has a MURDEROUS time. I have friends who are even taller and they have the same problem. I don’t live in Brooklyn or anything, so maybe this does exist in other places, but I feel like there’s a lack in general of “tall girl” skirts. The skirts seem to be made for five foot nothing people and therefore, of course it’ll be hard to find a long enough skirt.June 10, 2013 8:24 pm at 8:24 pm #958045shoshy5Member
NOT A JOKEJune 10, 2013 8:30 pm at 8:30 pm #958046popa_bar_abbaParticipant
Try buying kilts. Since they’re made for men, they are probably intended for taller people.June 10, 2013 8:54 pm at 8:54 pm #958047
Your’e kilting me.June 10, 2013 8:54 pm at 8:54 pm #958048rebdonielMember
If a guy is learning full time and doesn’t plan on supporting his wife, that’s a major case of him not following halakha.June 10, 2013 9:06 pm at 9:06 pm #958049Shopping613 🌠Participant
Deae Bonj, i meant for people who do live in a box, i reread the article and it seems it was catored to thos kind of people, im sorry if i offended you. I personally do not live in a box, ive seen tv, been on it once or twice, use the internet and are exposed to plenty of things. If YOU THINK my world is: “RAINBOWS AND SUNSHINE” GO check out my teen trouble thread
I havent seen rainbows or sunshine in my life for a while
shopping613June 11, 2013 1:25 am at 1:25 am #958050
I never said your world is of rainbows and sunshine ( though what a world that would be). Apology accepted and hope you did not take my post to much to heart. I am not comparing lives, and honestly hope that you are where you want to be. I am not because of my Tznuis struggle. That is why I originaly posted this thread. Hope you understand.
P.s. a life of perfection (rainbows, flowers, sunshine whatever would be boring. Hashem gives each of us challenges wether its shidduchim, Tznius, davening troubles, poverty etc. we all must e,brace these challenges to our best abilities and strive for what Hashem wants. I am trying to find a manner to do so and have seeked assistance from the coffee room. Hatzlacha with your own struggles and hope that you see sunshine if that is what you seek.June 11, 2013 1:28 am at 1:28 am #958051
Shoshy5, I’m sorry if it was not a joke. I just felt others would start commenting on your post in a negative manner. I was trying to save you I guess!? Sorry, did not mean to say it was a joke otherwise. Thank you for the thought though you don’t really know me besides for here:) was really sweet of you! Hope the guy you are trying to set up will find his basket and may Hashem take your “not joke” as a wonderful attempt to bring people together.June 11, 2013 2:31 am at 2:31 am #958052jaynydMember
You’re in grad school?! I hope not for a masters in English, Education, or speech.
(” I am Currently in graduate school actually, so I have already went through 3 years of undergraduate college.:)
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