Heartbroken over Hillary?

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  • #618666

    flatbusher
    Participant

    Are you heartbroken that Hillary lost? I have been surprised by friends of mine who are actually depressed over this. If you are, I would like to know what you thought she was going to bring to the presidency and why Trump will disappoint you.

    #1193229

    Joseph
    Participant

    You have the wrong friends.

    #1193230

    Get over it. She would have destroyed this country including Satmar if she would have won. All of klal Yisroel should bench gomel that trump won

    #1193231

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    I assume that those people who are upset that Hillary lost are not really upset that she lost but upset that Trump won. My impression was that most people voted based on who seems to be the lesser of two evils (although I’d like to remind everyone that at the end of the day, we don’t REALLY know in any case – “Lev melachim b’Yad Hashem”, and in this case in particular there is really no way to know).

    #1193232

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    If Trump was Jewish then he would win the lashon hara contest.

    As a person who has survived abuse on many levels, Trump in office can be very traumatic. There is no question that he is abusive. I want to keep it general on this forum.

    That’s one thing.

    Another… How do you explain to children that this man is no role model? The president represents this country. There is a reason why people compare him to H. He is normalizing violence and xenophobia.

    Finally, Trump has not shown sensitivity women’s issues, to put it lightly. Based on my observations, having Republicans in office is a threat to women’s bodies. Even Judaism prioritizes a woman’s life before an unborn child.

    IMHO, America had a bigger problem with letting a woman take a leadership role than it wanted to admit.

    Thank you. I have emuna and wish Hillary the best life and health and blessings always.

    #1193233

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    “why Trump will disappoint you.”

    It’s already sad to see the effects of this election. I know that I cannot see Hashem’s broad picture, and thus have to have emuna here regardless.

    Still, I voted and prayed for Hillary because I both wanted her as our president foremost, and also because I did not want Trump in office.

    I did not think that Trump would be any better for Israel than Hillary. I am relieved that some rabbis at least supported Hillary, especially after more of Trump’s history of assault came to light.

    I thank Hillary for her courage to stand up for America, for us, people, humans, our children, present and future.<3

    #1193234

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    Thank you for sharing your perspective, Lightbrite. I did not vote, but as someone who thinks she is probably happy that Trump won as opposed to Clinton, it was still very enlightening to hear your perspective.

    Thank you.

    #1193235

    Joseph
    Participant

    There vast majority of Republicans, including the President-elect, don’t oppose abortion when the mother’s life is endangered. The President-eject isn’t half as dangerous to women’s bodies as Bill Clinton was as President and would again be had his supporter and enabler, Hillary, moved him back into the White House where he previously abused women.

    #1193236

    147
    Participant

    Heartbroken over Hillary? Absolutely! that she was seen on a hike in the woods instead of a hike of her prison cell.

    #1193237

    MDG
    Participant

    “You have the wrong friends.”

    That was really funny. 🙂

    And kind of true.

    #1193238

    flatbusher
    Participant

    lightbrite: You have to believe that the hand of Hashem was in Trump’s victory. He won against all odds and all predictions. I do question though based on what did you vote for Hillary? I wince when I read frum people voted for her and can conclude they probably do not know what she stands for or her corrupt background, or worse, don’t care.

    #1193239

    WinnieThePooh
    Participant

    It is interesting that the line of how do you explain to children how Trump could be president has come up over and over. Is this the first time an immoral/indecent person has become president? How would people have explained Clinton, a person who for decades has been under suspicion of corruption? How did people explain to their children why Bill Clinton was impeached? Or Obama’s extreme narcissism? Keep on going back..Kennedy, Nixon, etc etc. Middos Tovos and moral convictions have never been a consideration for someone’s electability. The only difference is that today there is social media to spread their garbage publicly.

    Here is the explanation to give our kids: B”H we as klal yisroel are on a higher madreiga than our surroundings. America has low moral values, and their president reflects this. This is our challenge of being in galus that we have to remember who we are and what we strive for despite our surroundings.

    #1193240

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    Flatbusher

    “I do question though based on what did you vote for Hillary?”

    that wasnt addresed to me but as a frum person, I’ll reply. Most of the following are sufficent reason to vote for her in my book.

    1) He condoned war crimes

    2) He downplayed use of chemical weapons

    3) He is an impulsive person, not able or willing to think through the consequences of his actions

    4) He doesnt have an elementary understanding of how government works

    5) He admires leaders like Saddam and Putin

    6) He partly built a campaign on racism and fear of the other

    note: Not included in the list are the facts that he is “fake, phony and fraud” Since I readily grant that hillary is all those things as well.

    Winnie the Pooh

    I dont understand the question

    I dont really teach my children not be corrupt politicians. Politicians are corrupt that isnt surprisng, granted the Clintons took it to a new level. However Trump has had many shady buisness dealings, he was not a politician so we dont make as big a deal for some reason.

    I do teach my kids not to bully, dont call other people names, dont mock people with disablities. These are harder to deliver to my kids now becasue they see bullying does get you to the top

    #1193241

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    Use it to teach them the difference between goyim and Yidden, and the reason that we don’t strive to “get to the top” in the secular world.

    #1193242

    TheGoq
    Participant

    I have a coworker who was particularly distraught over the election results and when another coworker asked me how i felt about it in front of her even though i voted for Trump i said lets not talk about this right now knowing she was so upset.

    #1193243

    flatbusher
    Participant

    Lil: I hear what you say but if the government works the way it is supposed to with checks and balances, there isn’t much he can do on his own. Obama has set a precedent with his executive orders. But none of the reasons you cited for me don’t rise as a reason to vote for Hillary. She represented more of Obama: did you want more of that?

    #1193244

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    Flatbusher – I don’t think you meant your comments to be addressed to me. Did you mean Ubiquitin?

    #1193245

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    flatbusher

    “but if the government works the way it is supposed to with checks and balances,”

    It doesnt as you yourself point out regarding executive orders. Given that Trump has announced his admiration for Saddam I doubt he is opposed to misusing Executive actions.

    The one silver lining is that more than likely, it was mostly talk. His circle has already started walking back some of his promises including: dismantling Obamacare, getting rid of IRan deal, moving the embassy and MExico paying for the all to cite a few. (Im not saying Im happy with all thse walk-backs)

    However what remains worrisome, is how low has the country fallen that this is the act he needed to pull to get elected. Saying well of course he didn’t actually mean to support torturing children of terrorists, he was just trying to fire u the masses and win support. Is hardly reassuring

    “She represented more of Obama: did you want more of that?”

    What is the “that” in your sentence

    If by that you mean not (openly) condoning torture. Yes please, much more.

    IF by that you mean not downplaying chemical weapons, Yes please, much more.

    If by that you mean not being impulsive, and rather thinking through the consequences of decisions, Yes please much more

    and so on

    #1193246

    flatbusher
    Participant

    Lil: yes, sorry, meant for ubi.

    Ubi: If you don’t know what the Obama administration has been doing for past eight years, then I guess I am not surprised you voted for Hillary, and probably her gender weighed in as a factor. OBama has been pushing a far-left progressive agenda, and if you haven’t noticed, this PC garbage is infringing on First Amendment rights, he handed over control of the Internet to a body that is not supportive of free speech, he made a horrible deal with Iran, which continues to violate it with impunity, standing of the U.S abroad has sunk because of his apologies, 94.5 million people out of work, a deficit of more than $20 trillion, when he blasted Bush for being unpatriotic for a deficit half that. SHall I go on?

    #1193247

    yehudayona
    Participant

    A lot of people (including me) aren’t heartbroken that Hillary lost, they’re upset and worried that Trump won. Of course, it’s all in Hashem’s hands. Let’s hope that his erratic behavior is behind him. This morning’s Twitter rant against the NY Times — after he said he would exercise restraint — isn’t reassuring.

    #1193248

    flatbusher
    Participant

    I don’t think Trump’s rants are any worse than some of the things both Obama and Hillary have said, so relax. Yes, it is in Hashem’s hands and it truly is a miracle that he won, so Hashem obviously has a plan that we don’t understand. But under Dems, society has been sinking in morality and maybe this will slow it.

    #1193249

    147
    Participant

    He won against all odds and all predictions. Flatbusher:- Wrong! The right wing talk shows & websites had predicted a Trump win for months already, and kept stating how their predictions have been correct each & every single election since they have bee doing this since 1984, and even in the last weeks, their predictions didn’t flinch, so I was not caught off guard by President Donald Trump’s win.

    #1193250

    Joseph
    Participant

    A rant against the NYTimes is a positive thing.

    #1193251

    flatbusher
    Participant

    147: I listen to a few of those talk shows. No, they did not predict a win at all. They were cautious in that. So I don’t know whom you are talking about but even Sean Hannity, trumps’s staunchest trumpeter, did not predict victory. Please cite whom you heard predict the victory.

    #1193252

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    “so relax.”

    dont worry, Im relaxed

    “I don’t think Trump’s rants are any worse than some of the things both Obama and Hillary have said, “

    I’m curious what has Obama or Hillary said that is worse than say condoning torturing families

    “But under Dems, society has been sinking in morality and maybe this will slow it.”

    In some ways, but as I have explained there are other ways morality has increased under dems. For example minority rights including our rights. If you are able to take off Shabbos without fear of being fired that is thanks to liberals. Granted you may not like all liberal positions, I dont either. But to lump together all “sinking in morality” as occuring under dems isnt quite accurate

    #1193253

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    “and kept stating how their predictions have been correct each & every single election since they have bee doing this since 1984,”

    Lolololol

    They may have been right this time. but Savage, Hannity and Limbaugh have all predicted Republican wins in 2012 and 2008

    Even Trump didnt predict his victory. do you not recall his talk about the election being rigged?

    #1193254

    WinnieThePooh
    Participant

    Ubiquitin- my point is that as much as you don’t want your children to think that the bully wins, you also don’t want them thinking that lying is a means that justifies the end. Trump didn’t win because he bullied people into voting for him. I think he won despite his nature, because the democrats put up a really flawed candidate against him. Almost any other mainstream Democrat would have for sure won against him.

    In any case, sadly, being president doesn’t mean you are automatically a role model, and every frum kid should be told that our morality and code of behavior is based on the Torah, and not on who is sitting in the White House.

    #1193255

    flatbusher
    Participant

    “But under Dems, society has been sinking in morality and maybe this will slow it.”

    In some ways, but as I have explained there are other ways morality has increased under dems. For example minority rights including our rights. If you are able to take off Shabbos without fear of being fired that is thanks to liberals. Granted you may not like all liberal positions, I dont either. But to lump together all “sinking in morality” as occuring under dems isnt quite accurate

    Show me. I don’t know where you got that from. It was republicans who passed the Civil Rights act in 1964, not the Dems. Dems like to rewrite their history. I think there is enough indication that U.S. society has deteriorated with rampant abortion, drug use, illegal aliens getting treated better than veterans, lax enforcement of laws, and on and on.

    #1193256

    golfer
    Participant

    What to tell your children?

    Same thing you’d tell them after any election or event. Works fine for the day after the world series too–

    Hein Am le’vadad yishkon u’vagoyim lo yischashov.

    After that you can go out for a stroll with the Goq who has the good sense to tell us now is not the time to say much more.

    #1193257

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    flatbusher

    ” I don’t know where you got that from.”

    history.

    Party ideologies have switched multiple times. It was the Democrats who opposed the civil rights act in the 60’s. These where southern Democrats they all vote Republican today. The history of Party politics is long and mutifactorial. the easiest way to see it is to Have a look at the electoral map in the years leading up to Civil rights: 1952, 56, 60 and compare to post civil rights 64, 68. PAy particular attention to the South and watch the color change that remains to today

    Crime is down, life expectancy is up, the way we treat minorities is better, the way we treat mentally ill and handicapped is better, reluctance to go to war, when we do go to war way civilans are treated si better and on and on.

    Are we perfect? Far from it. And there are certainly many ways in which morality has deteriorated, some of which you have identified.

    winnie the pooh

    “that lying is a means that justifies the end.”

    I dont and thats yet another reaosn why I opposed Trump. (though I oppose Hillary for the same reason, since although she lies less than Trump, it is too much for my taste

    “Trump didn’t win because he bullied people into voting for him”

    true but if people vote for the guy who came up with “Lyin Ted” “Crooked hillary” “Little Marco” clearly bullying is OK

    “In any case, sadly, being president doesn’t mean you are automatically a role model, and every frum kid should be told that our morality and code of behavior is based on the Torah, and not on who is sitting in the White House.”

    Oh that is certainly true. I remember as a kid one of my Rebein would say that children’s siddurim and coloring books had it wrong “shelo asani goy” doesnt refer to, as ilustarted in those pictures a drunk homeless etc goy. IT refers to the most prestigious Goy namely the President

    but this isnt about being a role model. Of course Bill Clinton was a terrible Role model to say the least, as others have pointed out. Trump, aside from being an equally terrible (ok maybe worse maybe better, lets leave that aside) role model. It is the tactic he used to get ahead, that his supporters have shown works.

    The message a sinificant number of people gave on Tuesday (moslty inadvertently, though some because of it, make no mistake) Is: Bully people, mock people, thorugh basic decency to the wind and you too can get ahead in life.

    #1193258

    flatbusher
    Participant

    ANd automatically you credit the liberals? That’s a joke. For time immemorial liberals do their best to demonize Republicans or anyone who doesn’t share their ideology. Little was mentioned that Hillary Clinton admired Margaret Sanger, the founder of Planned Parenthood, which aimed to eliminate blacks through abortion, or that her mentor was Sen. Robert Byrd, who was a big shot in the KKK, or she is a disciple of Saul Alinsky. with his destructive plans for the U.S.

    As far as tactics, what was so pure about Hillary’s tactics?

    #1193259

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    Flattbusher

    You need to look up the definitions of liberal vs conservative.

    Regarding hillary I’m not sure what tactic you refer to. My point is the public persona trump gives us is that of a bully. Hillary is without question a sleazy politician but that was something that she tried to suppress.

    By winning trump showEd bullies get ahead. I’m not sure why this is a controversial position

    #1193260

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Would you prefer a president who won by cheating?

    #1193261

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    “Use it to teach them the difference between goyim and Yidden, and the reason that we don’t strive to “get to the top” in the secular world. “

    Granted without naming anyone in particular, have you not come across a Yid who gained prestige by being a big contributor to the shul and yet behaved rudely to members?

    We don’t live in a bubble. Unfortunately politics happen in our communities as well.

    One already-spoken statement of the Trump win is that it reflects society. Being frum does not make us immune.

    Money still buys its way into our communities. It can silence opposition. Yet it doesn’t have to be this way, baruch Hashem.

    B’esrat Hashem all of us can reveal the light in this extreme circumstance by improving our middos.

    #1193262

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    DY

    “Would you prefer a president who won by cheating?”

    im not sure if that was adressed to me. nor am I aware of any cheating that took place

    There are two different discussions taking place

    1) Flatbushers question:”based on what did you vote for Hillary?”

    2) Winnie the Pooh’s question

    “It is interesting that the line of how do you explain to children how Trump could be president has come up over and over. Is this the first time an immoral/indecent person has become president?”

    The fact that he is a bully is my answer to #2 not #1

    so when you ask if I prefer a question who won by cheating, if adressing #2, a. Would my kids know s/he cheated? If so I guess it depends on the extent of the cheating an d bullying

    #1193263

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    nor am I aware of any cheating that took place

    Donna Brazile.

    If you somehow think voting for a candidate is approving of their morals or tactics, we could rarely if ever vote.

    It isn’t though; it’s showing hakaras hatov to the U.S.A., and voting for who we think will be the best person for the job.

    We don’t look at politicians (or sports stars, or entertainers) as role models.

    That’s what we should be telling our children.

    #1193264

    flatbusher
    Participant

    Ubi: Trump’s win shows bullies get ahead? The election showed that he appealed to issues that were bothering them, namely that the mainstream parties ignore the people who vote for them. People like Trump because they feel he says what needs to be said without fear as opposed to standard politicians who couch their comments in gibberish just so it doesn’t sound like they are taking a position. Trump may be a bully but I don’t believe people elected him because of that. And I know the difference between liberal and conservative. As for Hillary’s tactics? Lies, lies and more lies about anything and everything that would ingratiate her to the electorate. She went so far as to accuse the family of Benghazi victims lying about what she told them when their loved ones bodies returned. She put forth programs claiming they won’t cost an additional dime, which was laughable to even a common ear. She tried to win votes by castigating Trump supporters. Want more on her tactics?

    #1193265

    WinnieThePooh
    Participant

    I think the take-home message is that it was so unlikely that Trump would become president (he probably never meant to get this far either and it all started out as a game for him) and his statements and behavior would have knocked out many a candidate, since bullies do not usually get ahead, that clearly you can see the Yad Hashem orchestrating it. Whether Hashem wants him there for our good or for our bad remains to be seen. If the latter, then tell your kids it is a wake-up call for us to remember our status in galus and what we are supposed to be doing.

    #1193266

    Health
    Participant

    Flatbusher -“For example minority rights including our rights. If you are able to take off Shabbos without fear of being fired that is thanks to liberals”

    Unfortunately, that’s not true! (Just ask Ubiq – I’m sure he found the Shabbos case by now!)

    In some industry’s they won’t even higher Shabbos observers!

    I hope this changes under Trump! After all, his daughter and son-in-law are Shomer Shabbos!

    #1193267

    Others see Trump as someone who represents their interests.

    #1193268

    What was he elected for?!?!

    Obamacare is not settled law??

    #1193269

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    DY

    “Donna Brazile.”

    What you mean at a debate in FLInt the Candidates would be asked about Flint!? Yes that swung the election in hillary’s favor. OF course it shoudlnt have happened but My Kids are too young to have picked up on that one minor example of cheating which falls away compared to Trump’s Bully-persona which defines him to a certain extent

    If you somehow think voting for a candidate is approving of their morals or tactics, we could rarely if ever vote.”

    I dont and I never said his bullying is a reason not to vote for him.

    I gave 6 OTHER reasons in this post

    http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/heartbroken-over-hillary#post-633537

    Bullying is an answer to a seperate question, about children. I f I thought he was a better candidate and the 6 reasons outlined above werent factual I would vote for Trump the Bully, and deal with my kids.

    This quote “We don’t look at politicians (or sports stars, or entertainers) as role models.” Shopws you arent understanding my question. Their is no question neither Hillary nor Trump are Role models. however even if not Role models, they both are examples of getting ahead in life. Trump did it by bullying. Role model or not, it shows bullying works

    Flatbusher

    “Trump’s win shows bullies get ahead?”

    um yes, without question. OF course that is not why he won.

    “Trump may be a bully but I don’t believe people elected him because of that.”

    I never siad otherwise.

    “And I know the difference between liberal and conservative.”

    Ok, So you understand that miniority rights including that of religous workers came about as a result of liberals. Right?

    Again you can say now they are taking it to far, and we deserve protection but not those engaged in “immorality” but the advances made with regards to minoritys came about as a result of liberals in the face of conservative resistance

    “As for Hillary’s tactics? Lies, lies and more lies about anything and everything that would ingratiate her to the electorate.”

    couldn’t agree more, and with the possible exception of Donald Trump, she is the biggest liar to have run for office.

    Again though, I never said the tactics is a reason not to vote for him per se. I gave you six reasons, this wasn’t one of them. The issue of bullying was a separate issue in response to Winnie the Pooh.

    Winnie

    “I think the take-home message is … you can see the Yad Hashem orchestrating it. “

    thats what I went with.

    It is time for truth

    Im confused, you know he is a lifelong Liberal, at least regarding “social issues” please please tell me you arent shocked now

    ( I’m sure he found the Shabbos case by now!- Nope 🙂

    #1193270

    takahmamash
    Participant

    I have a coworker who was particularly distraught over the election results and when another coworker asked me how i felt about it in front of her even though i voted for Trump i said lets not talk about this right now knowing she was so upset.

    One thing I have learned over the years is never, never, never, talk about politics or religion at work. Never.

    #1193271

    ubiquitin,

    He is well aware of most of his voting base desires

    Others see Trump as someone who represents their interests.

    #1193272

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    “He is well aware of most of his voting base desires”

    Assuming that is true, do you think he cares?

    Besides, doesnt that make it worse, IF he knows and disregards them?

    Here are some of the things he (per members of his inside circle) has already walked back on:

    – Obamacare wont be repealed

    – MExico wont pay for the wall (which maybe a fence in some places)

    – Not all illegal aliens are being deported

    – The embassy isnt being moved to Yerushalyim

    – He isnt getting rid of the Iran deal

    dont worry there is more to follow.

    Thats the one reassuring thing about Trump. He changes his mind so often nobody knows what he really thinks or how he will govern. hopefully his admiration for Putin and desire for torture was part of his shtick as well. ( though if that is the case, it remains concerning that that is the pandering he needed to perform to get elected)

    #1193273

    147
    Participant

    flatbusher:- Take a look at some of “Bill Hill”s you-tubes, clearly predicting a Donald Trump win plenty time ahead of the elections.

    #1193274

    flatbusher
    Participant

    It is obvious that regardless of anyone’s predictions, it really didn’t look like Trump was going to win. I am not alone in believing that Yad Hashem was evident, and we do not understand why, so all those Hillary fans, do you not believe Hashem runs the world and deemed the outcome of this election?

    #1193275

    Person1
    Member

    “so all those Hillary fans, do you not believe Hashem runs the world”

    I have a question too for all those trump supporters: don’t you belive one shouldn’t talk during Shachris and should be makpid on Nagel Vaser?!

    #1193276

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    “so all those Hillary fans, do you not believe Hashem runs the world”

    “I have a question too for all those trump supporters: don’t you belive one shouldn’t talk during Shachris and should be makpid on Nagel Vaser?!”

    not sure what your point is. Flatbusher’s point is that beforehand, we have a chiyuv to do hishtadlus. Afterwards, we have a chiyuv to say that we don’t know what is the best for us, only Hashem does, it was from Hashem and it is good.

    This is particularly true in a case in which it really is not clear if it’s good or bad.

    “lev melachim b’Yad Hashem.” Especially in this case.

    #1193277

    Health
    Participant

    Flatbusher -“If you are, I would like to know what you thought she was going to bring to the presidency”

    I know what she would have brought!

    Did you see the headlines about s/o arrested for joining ISIS?!?

    They wrote he was planning an attack on Times Square.

    She would have brought a lot of Terrorism here!

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