- This topic has 22 replies, 10 voices, and was last updated 2 weeks ago by .
-
Posts
-
The uniqueness of Hebrew is that each word has a specific frequency and meaning
Yirah an open word meaning awe, reverance
Pachad a closed word meaning fear and subversion
The two are very distinct in nature and mean very different things
When a person sees the handiwork of God in their lives, how everything God does is for a bigger purpose, the seemingly bad times always turning into better times it brings home the pasuk
“For I know the plans I have for you, plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future” Everything that seems to fall apart is falling into place.
It says in the Torah 365 times
Do not fear do not fear do not fear
When I walk through the valley of the shadow of death I am not afraid cuz you are with me
Is that not “appreciation”Vayoel Moshe a Treatise about Eretz Yisroel on wikipedia says this, “3. Maamar Leshon HaKodesh (Treatise about the holy tongue), in which Teitelbaum writes that not only is there no reason to choose to speak Modern Hebrew – it is actually forbidden. This was written as a personal answer to the chief rabbi of Montreal at the time, Rabbi Pinchas Hirschsprung, and it was later added into this book.” Just so you know, “FORBIDDEN” means, “FORBIDDEN”. You are testing H”M. Stop it. signed, RDD Teitelbaum
You need to specify whether you’re referring to Loshon Kodesh or referring to Ivrit.
Ivrit is nothing more than the language of the Zionist State, in the same sense that Farsi is the language of the Islamic State of Iran.
VaYoel Moshe represents a very radical & very minority
opinion that was overwhelmingly rejected or ignored
by the overwhelming majority of Orthodox Jews,
who were alive when it was written, in the 1950s CE.The author was a close-minded, hate-filled, fanatic
who had lots of innocent Jewish blood on his hands,
and the more people listen to the over-rated author
of that sefer, the more Jewish blood will be spilled.VaYoel Moshe will lead the Jewish people directly into
a Jewish Civil War, with Jews shooting guns at each other
and intentionally murdering each other.That Jewish Civil War will soon be followed by Eretz Yisroel
being attacked from all sides, which will result in a Holocaust.But please, do not listen to anything I say,
just because I speak the truth.But please, do not listen to anything I say,
just because I am trying to save Jewish lives.But please, do not listen to anything I say,
just because I am trying to avoid a Jewish Civil War
and another Holocaust.1. All the people saying modern hebrew is “nothing like lashon hakodesh” are just showing their ignorance and obviously don’t speak a word of modern hebrew.
2. Mishnah berurah forbids reading secular books on shabbos but makes an exception for “lashon hakodesh” because it helps a person learn torah better since it improves his understanding of the language (In O”CH 307). It takes 5 seconds of research to find out that this exception also applies to modern hebrew according to many poskim since it also helps learning torah (similar grammar, same roots) although there is some debate among modern poskim, and this only applies to people who aren’t fluent in modern hebrew.
3. Modern hebrew is quite literally based of lashon hakodesh the roots are the same, the grammar is the same, how is it possible to say it’s forbidden? because it was developed largely in part by secular people? Because it’s used by the “zionist state”? People in america can’t read a chumash without a translation, I find that far more troubling than learning modern hebrew and actually being able to read without studying for 10 years as a prerequisite or relying on translations that inherently differ from the original text out of neccesity.@R D Teitelbaum,
If you know well the hebrew language, you’ll know straight away that @rescue comment about the difference between Yirah and Pachad is biblical hebrew/Lashon Kodesh, nothing to do with the secular distortions in ivrit/modern hebrew.
He actually subtly points out a very interesting mistake that many make, thinking that Yirah means fear, which it does not, it means awe/reverence, besides he quote Psukim which is lashon kodesh.
@Square root, I am mocheh on the disgusting bizayon Hatorah you display, not only the audacity to think as a small online commentor you can openly state you “disagreeing” with a Gadol by all means, but deriding, belittling and blaspheming a Gadol who all-including those that disagreed with him- agreed he was a Gadol in his time.
Just because you do not understand his works, reasoning, or wearing the glasses of zionism are offended by his psakim and opinions, that gives you no right to speak like that.r
I have many different stripes and kinds in family and friends, from Mizrachi, Litvish, Chassidish, Sephardi, and all no matter on their opinions all agree he was a Gadol, and deriding him is playing with fire.
He was filled with hate?
Oh yes? You are obviously either totally unaware of who he was, or ignore the facts in seeking and excuse to hate a Gadol you do not understand.
So many people from mizrachi, litvish etc etc were personally helped by him, how many times did people who sharply disagreed with him, still went to him for help and hadracha in other matters, knowing that he would still help?
What blood does he have on his hand exactly?
The blood of the Jews he tirelessly time and again tried to help save despite the immense dangers on himself from both the nazis in WdWII and after from those who hated him??
Disgusting, do teshuva.Hebrew and lashon hakodesh are 95% equivalent. Modern words created likely would have been and will be incorporated into lashon hakodesh. Banning Hebrew is banning lashon hakodesh. The Torah itself uses words from other languages.
Number one, try speaking only Yiddish or Amercian English to avoid hurting H”M’s Loshen Kodesh. Which is why it is said outside of the synagogue/Shul. Eretz Yisroel’s Ivrit language uses offensive words alongside words of an explanatory nature. To use a Holy Language in everyday conversation defeats the purpose of Loshen Kodesh in synagogue/Shul. Also knowing that the Hebrew language being used in casual conversation in Eretz Yisroel and in other world Jewish Communities is saying that casualness when speaking to each other, using the Ivrit Letters as words and not necessarily as written down (although that is used too) hurts the Al-mty’s language that Eretz Yisroel Ivrit is based on. Why hurt H-m like that? Can’t you learn American English or Yiddish to express yourself? And you attack me for a traditional idea? Rabbi Shlita Yoel Teitelbaum was the one who wrote Vayoel Moshe and it was his (like it or not) strict way of addressing a horrifying problem with the language of the zionists. They are not concerned that H”M’s Ivrit Loshen Kodesh Letters are mixed in conversation and written language that combines both casual words and Holy Words at the same time. Why are we doing that to H”M. (https://www.sefaria.org/Genesis.11.5, “G-D came down to look at the city the the mortals had built.”) What have you built oh Eretz Yisroel zionists? What have you built? You have created a language that is casual and used the Holy Letters of Loshen Kodesh as it’s base. Why are you all sitting in judgement of what you (not I) have done?
The Radak (Sefer HaMichlol, introduction) writes that Loshon HaKodesh is all but forgotten to us, and all we have left is what is in Tanach.
Modern Hebrew is not different than Turkish or Farsi – it is the language of a secular culture complete with all those things that we want to stay away from. The fact that some of those who speak Modern Hebrew are religious Jews is not different than the language of any country Jews are in where they speak the language of the land. The point is to stay away from the language of the land and only talk the language of the Jew.
The Chasam Sofer notes that while Chazal used many words and phrases borrowed from the Greeks and Romans, they never coined a new word, as has been done in modern hebrew, for in their holy opinion it was preferable to use other languages rather than create even a single new word that did not have its like, its example, in the Torah, since it could not be rooted in sanctity.
The Chasam Sofer EH 2:11 says that in ancient times Jews used to use a modified version of the non-Jewish languages for everyday (divrei chol) talk, similar to what Yiddish is. The Kuzari writes that Avrohom Avinu, therefore, spoke 2 different languages. One for holy speech – that was Loshon HaKodesh, and the other for mundane speech – that, the Kuzari says was some non-Jewish language that Avrohom Avinu took and changed around a little on his own. And thats the idea behind Yiddish. It is a non-Jewish language that we took and twisted a bit in order to make it exclusive among us.
The Rambam writes that even in the days of Ezra they had a translator to explain the Torah readings to the people – clearly, they did not speak Loshon Hakodesh, even before the Churban.
Maran Hagoen Rav Elazar Shach told American educators that Yeshiva boys should be taught Chumash in Yiddish, even if the boys speak English amongst themselves. He furtermore said that both boys and girls should learn to be comfortable in Yiddish. He also said that Yiddish is spoken by “all jews” (that is his phrase). He referred parents to send their children to Yiddish teaching yeshivos. And there is good reason why Rebbes and Rabbonim give ma’amarim in Yiddish.
Other reasons why Modern Hebrew is not the “language of the Jew” are:
(a) Its origin is actually anti-Jewish. The creators of MH did so because “it is not possible to be a nation without a national language” (see Eisentein’s encyclopedia, ‘Ivrit’). This of course is Apikorsus, because Jews are a nation not like other nations – whereas other nations need a common spoken language, we only need the Torah to make us a “nation”. We are no more or less an “am” if we have or do not have a common language, common food, or common geographic boundaries. The idea was that MH will make us into a “nation like all nations”, in the same way that some fool may say that all Jews should eat bagels and lox because without doing so, we will be less of an “am”. And even though those who speka MH in Bnei Brak today do not subscirbe to this heresy, we do not consider this language the “Jewish language” because it was created to actually change the definition of what “Jewish” means. In The golyon Maharsha, quoted by Rav Reuven Grozovsky in “Bayos HaZeman”, there is brought a responsa of Rav Yaakov Sasportes, a great combatant in the fight against the Shabse Tzvi y”s. He says that Shabse Tzvi actually intorduced some positive, even obligatory practices into Judaism. Performing Birkas Kohanim daily, even in Chutz La’aretz, was foremost among them. But, says the Ohel Yaakov, even though this is a good and positive practice, and perhaps even obligatory according to Halachha, since its origins came through Shabse Tzvi, we should not do it. The same applies, all the more to making MH our “national language.”
(b) The changes in Loshon HaKodesh that were made, both in accent and content, are unacceptable. The changing of accents from Ashkenaz to Sefard for Ashkenaz Jews is wrong. Rabbeinu Bachye writes that if you change even a komatz to a Pasach in the language, it will lead to heresy. Also, certain words in Hebrew are definitely against the spirit of the Torah. (Ben Yehuda once said that he designed the language specifically to “shtoch” the religious). Example: “Chashmal”, which means electricity in MH, comes from the Loshon HaKodesh word found at the beginning of Yechizkel which is the name of the Angel of Fire. The idea of taking the name of the Malach of AIsh and using it to mean “electricity” was the implication that whereas in the olden days we believed in angels as explanations for things, today we believe in technology. It would be the same as calling penicillin, for instance, “Rephoel.” The Debreciner Rav ZT’L actually discusses if it is permitted to use this word.
MH does have its roots in Loshon HaKodesh, but its adjustments of it make it the worst of both worlds – since it has Loshon HaKodesh elements we dont want to use it for our mundane purposes – and since it has non-Loshon HaKodesh elements, we do not want to accept it as our national language. So to speak MH is one thing, but to say it is the “language of the Jew” is just not so. Neither is Yiddish the “language of the Jew”, any more than a black hat is the “clothing of a Jew.” But just as the purpose of the hat is “lo shinu es malbushayhen” – we want to dress differently than the seculars – thep purpose of Yiddish is “lo shinu es shemom” – we want to talk differently than the seculars.
There is no Mitzvah to speak in Loshon HaKodesh. Without the modernizations, its not much of a speakable language (we don’t have that many words). And if you do add in a bunch of words and tweak it, youll just end up with another Yiddish, but based on Loshon HaKodesh, which is only a bad thing, not good, as per above. Plus, the Responsa Chavtzeles HaSharon (I:OH:10) writes that Loshon HaKodesh is only Kodesh if its used exclusively for holy things. Once you start using it to speak mundane things, its not holy anymore. It’s like an Aron HaKodesh – once you use it to hold your model racing car collection and not Sifrei Torah, its not an Aron HaKodesh anymore.
The Chasam Sofer writes that the reason Jews do not speak Loshon Hakodesh as a speaking language is because it is inappropriate to use a holy language while enveloped in Tumah, which is our current status. The Rambam writes that a love song in Hebrew is more repulsive to Hashem than the same song in Arabic, for instance, because the pollution of the Holy language is an additional crime. If someone wants to store smut in his house, thats bad enough. But to store it in the Aron HaKodesh is unspeakably worse. So to cause Loshon HaKodesh to be used as a street language, complete with all the disgusting ways it is used today in Israel, is just more of a reason why we should make sure it never gets into the streets. For our Creator to look down at the world and see His holy language – or even elements of it – used in magazines such as are sold in Kiosks on Yaffo or Dizengoff Street, or spoken by the lowest of the low trying to make a sale, is not something that he or we are happy about.
The Kuzari writes that Avrohom Avinu, therefore, spoke 2 different languages. One for holy speech – that was Loshon HaKodesh, and the other for mundane speech – that, the Kuzari says was some non-Jewish language that Avrohom Avinu took and changed around a little on his own. And thats the idea behind Yiddish. It is a non-Jewish language that we took and twisted a bit in order to make it exclusive among us.
Even though there are Yiddishistin who speak Yiddish, they took it from us, not vice-versa (as is the case of Modern Hebrew), and since we do not live in a country or society dominated by Yiddish-speaking shkotzim, there is no benefit of Lo shinu es leshonam by not speaking Yiddish. But there is such a benefit by not speaking Hebrew.
H”M wants me to say this to all participants in this post discussion about “hebrew”. “Why are you raping me and my Loshen Kodesh?” “It is a violation of my Holy Loshen Kodesh Ivrit. I made these letters to be “Loved” by “Torah Male Yidden”. not to be used to say, “so how is the weather today? what sort of murderous rage are we facing with Iran?” “so, what have you made for lunch?” “I need to make a cellphone call it’s urgent?” Why do we need to use Loshen Kodesh Ivrit Letters in casual conversation in order to express ourselves outside of synagogue/Shul? I need your cooperation everyone. Pressure everyone to use Yiddish in common conversation and/or American English the universal language of most everyone. I need respect of my Ivrit Letters used to create creation/Bereshis Bara, and not in reverse of other languages…but in the proper right to left direction and other languages for the most part participate in creation only in left to right directionality. Stop violating my Loshen Kodesh. Stop it immediately. It is of no use to discuss this. Just do it. I am a very Jealous G-D and I am Jealous that you approve of zionist/Eretz Yisroel Ivrit to speak outside of synagogue/Shul. In Shul belongs my Holy Tongue/Language. Outside belongs Yiddish/American English. Don’t dispute me the way you dispute even Aseres HaDibros/The Ten Declarative Statements.”
UJM: The Chasam Sofer’s teacher R’ Nosson Adler delivered his sermons in Hebrew. There were other great Torah sages who spoke Hebrew on Shabbos and Yom Tov centuries ago. There were Jewish communities speaking Rabbinic Hebrew many centuries after the close of the Mishnah.
Most critics of Modern Hebrew are close-minded, hate-filled, fanatics,
and they are motivated by a radical Neturei Karta [Neturei Kapo] philosophy.They never offer any practical alternative to Modern Hebrew,
because there is NO PRACTICAL ALTERNATIVE to Modern Hebrew
— none whatsoever.And no, Yiddish *** IS NOT *** a practical alternative
to Modern Hebrew, because the majority of Israel’s Jews
come from places where Yiddish was never spoken.Even Rabbi Avigdor Miller ZTL ZYA once gave a public lecture
in which he explained that he would love to deliver his public lectures
in Yiddish [he said “Libi Nokfi”, those were his exact words],
but he chose to speak English instead,
to avoid alienating the many Sephardic Jews in his audience.The wicked heretical anti-Zionists rodfim know this, but they
still advocate for Yiddish-only anyway, because they have a
VERY LOW opinion of Sephardic Jews, and they DO NOT CARE
if Sephardic Jews are alienated and excluded and
disenfranchised and made to feel inferior and unwanted.Their love of Yiddish is infinitely greater than their love of Sephardic Jews;
and their opinion of Yiddish is infinitely higher than their opinion of Sephardic Jews.HaKatan has repeatedly stated — falsely — that
“ALL Mizrachi Jews are idol-worshippers” — those were his exact words!Last but not least, Yiddish is MUCH farther away from the Lashon HaKodesh
of Tanach and Mishnah than Modern Hebrew is — but they will never admit
this obvious truth, because they have been hopelessly brainwashed
into loving Yiddish [which is distorted German] and hating Modern Hebrew.Their minds are hopelessly brainwashed,
and they will not be influenced by facts or logic.@ujm
>The point is to stay away from the language of the land and only talk the language of the Jew.That sounds like something an anti-semite would say.
Why do you hate Jews?
Do not be a rasha!
Once again, @SQUARE_ROOT nauseatingly spouts his love of the Zionist idol and criticizes G-d-fearing Jews (NK) because they publicly deny his idol and also misses the point despite the multiple posts by ujm and others explaining. Amazing how idolatry destroys rationality.
English would have been an excellent choice, especially because that was the language of the Mandate there at the time, and already was an international language. The only reason the heretics bastardized and denigrated our holy language with their creation of “Modern Hebrew” is for heretical nationalist purposes.
It is the Zionists, not anti-Zionists, that were rodfim, as they have amply written and shown throughout their odious history going back over a century.
It is also the Zionists, not anti-Zionists, who have amply proven their VERY LOW opinion of Sephardic Jews, like Yaldei Teiman and all the rest.Kol HaPosel biMumo Posel.
The point is to keep the holy tongue exactly that: holy, and to use a different language for mundane day-to-day speech. Yiddish could work for that, of course, though a yeshivish English would probably be the modern equivalent and also not have the baggage of speaking a similar language to that which the Nazi murderers spoke.
To HaKatan, and ujm; Thank you, I am in total agreement. As far as all other zionist minds are concerned here; where is your President’s yarmulka? Where is his tziztit? Where is his discussion about Chareidi/Ultra-Orthodox not hopefully participating in the Military of Eretz Yisroel in order to study and live a Torah lifestyle with their Mishpocha? Does he believe in Torah? Does he instead worship something other than Torah? He promotes zionist values at all times. To follow Torah is not to make concessions and follow only what appeals to you whenever you think you want to follow Torah, or if, I mean, if you want to follow Torah. If he followed Torah strictly the way the Ultra-Orthodox Yidden do he would be in obeyance to all the laws of Torah. He would then be a Yid and not a zionist jew. Does Torah in it’s Loshen Kodesh Ivrit ever state; “look just do whatever you want and go and teach other jews to do whatever they want, too! You don’t have to obey Torah Laws strictly! You aren’t required to.” By the way what I just said was all FALSE Torah teaching. Torah Laws are meant to be obeyed. Why? Simply stated, ‘not always’ is given a reason why we must obey Torah Laws, we just must obey because, and here is the clincher, because we are COMMANDED” to obey all H”M’s Torah Laws. We are never, I repeat, NEVER given the option to obey or not to obey as we see fit, as we choose. We are always commanded by H”M to obey not just some (or whatever we feel is convenient) of H-s Torah Laws. One must obey Torah Laws both written and hidden and that we must protect at “ALL COSTS” H-s Holy Loshen Kodesh. We must never in any way shape or form disobey H”M nor treat H-s (not ours) Holy Loshen Kodesh.
dear rescue and also to comment regarding pureyiddishkeit. Let’s be clear. This coffee room is impure on all accounts. Chometzdige talk all around. Even if you try to justify a coffee room like, ‘hebrew’ you will, without realizing it be contributing to Loshen Hora and not Loshen Kodesh. Why? you might ask? because to state Holy Loshen Kodesh words on a ‘website’ allows, even in a transliteration format as you use dear rescue to state the Holy Words of Torah/or Torah Seforim in another format, another language, dismissing the fact that you are now hurting H”M’s Holy Words in another language. It is very tricky to avoid Loshen Hora of H”M’s Holy Language in any coffee room/coffee house. dear rescue, so please save your discussion of Holy Words for synagogue/Shul and don’t, please bring it into a coffee room/coffee house format. Thank you.
@HaKatan
>It is the Zionists
>It is also the ZionistsThat is the language of anti-semites like Tucker Carlson and Hasan Piker.
A holy Jew like yourself should distance yourself from them!
והייתם לי קדשים כי קדוש אני ה’ ואבדל אתכם מן העמים להיות לי
Do not be like the other nations!
VayidomAharon:
Those heretics stole that name – Tzion – from our Torah.
The gentiles happen to also know of that word from their “Bible”.None of that disqualifies a Jew from using that word. Tzion is part of G-d’s holy language, meaning that it is for Jews.
The implication of your post, though, is backwards. The Nazis got at least some of their propaganda from the early Zionists. For example, look up the origins of “A Jew’s life is a dog’s life” and the offensive and antisemitic and patently false canard “Jews cannot be loyal citizens of their host countries” and much more. That last one is a real doozy, especially from a movement that claims to be all about protecting Jews (regardless of the merit or lack thereof of that assertion).
So, regardless of the merits of your claims against either gentile you mentioned, it’s actually the other way around, as noted.
In his perush hamishnayot on pirke Avot the Rambam explains that Mitzvah Kala (in the Mishna tha says to be careful with a mitzva kalah like a missva hamura) refers to mitzvot that are light in peoples minds and gives two examples: speaking lashon hakodesh and being happy on Yom Tov. Some things haven’t changed.
@rescue
“That means I can think for myself and make choices based off my own thinking and make choices outside any control system _i_ choose cuz that’s a god given right”Your free will does not in any way change what is right and wrong. That has nothing to do with a strait-jacket and any state of fear and “control system” and whatever else you wrote there. Your G-d-given “right”, as you put it, is to make your best assessment as to what G-d wants – not what you want – and also to G-d forbid violate His will if you choose to do that. But G-d did not give anyone the right to create their own Torah.
Pirkei Avos tells us “asei licha rav” – find for yourself a Torah authority who can properly guide and advise you. In your case, that might be a rebbetzin, if the writing style, etc. are what they seem to be. No strait-jackets. Just your well-advised best efforts to do G-d’s will.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.