February 20, 2011 2:52 am at 2:52 am #743877☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
OU’s article on gelatin:
excerpted parts: (emphasis mine)
This is not the mainstream position. It has been rejected by every major kosher certifying agency. Indeed, equipment that processed gelatin products might need kosherization, depending on the nature of the contact between the equipment and the product.
… Of course, there are products that require beef gelatin, and no suitable alternative exists. The kosher consumer will be pleased to note that the OU certifies such a gelatin as well. This special gelatin is made exclusively from the skins of kosher ritually slaughtered cows. Strikingly, this variety of beef-derived gelatin is considered pareve, and may even be combined with dairy ingredients! Although kosher laws are very strict concerning the segregation of milk and meat, the processing of these hides renders them pareve. Therefore, even kosher milk chocolate delicacies can be made with kosher beef gelatin. Orthodontists of the world rejoice: every sticky gummy treat is now available to the kosher consumer.February 20, 2011 7:28 am at 7:28 am #743878
Thank you DYFebruary 20, 2011 12:37 pm at 12:37 pm #743879☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
YWFebruary 21, 2011 9:11 pm at 9:11 pm #743880
PBA: Sorry for the delay.
When a davar is pogem a ta’aruves, Shulchan Aruch paskens like the Rashba that the ta’aruves is mutar if the majority is heter. The basis for this Halacha is learned in the Gemara from neveila sheina reuya l’ger. This would certainly seem to be the case with our soap, and the ikar hadin should be that soap is mutar.
However, the Rambam writes that neveila serucha sheina reuya l’ger is patur, which implies assur. The Pri Chadash understands the issur to be bal teshaktzu, which would not apply in a ta’aruves. However, the Pri Toar understands that the issur neveila remains. The Chavos Da’as writes that according to the Rambam who explains the heter of neveila serucha is from “shelo k’derech achilaso,” the cheftza is still assur and the heter is on the ma’aseh achila.
Therefore, according to the Pri Toar and Chavos Da’as, while the soap itself is mutar, the non-kosher ingredients in the soap would still be assur. Based on this, it is understandable why many people would want to be machmir to use kosher soap, to avoid putting non-kosher ingredients on their dishes, and by extension, food.
Furthermore, the Teshuvos HaRashba, brought in Shulchan Aruch YD 134 writes that any ingredient intentionally added to a ta’aruves is never batel, no matter how miniscule. This would presumably apply even to a davar pagum that requires bitul b’rov according to the Rashba and SA.
Additionally, the Ran holds that rov heter is not enough. The con of the ta’am pagum must outweigh the pro of the added volume. While SA in YD 103 only brings this opinion as a yesh omrim, according to the Pri Megadim and Rabbi Akiva Eiger, the Shulchan Aruch paskens this way in Hilchos Pesach. This may be an issue with soaps if the non-kosher ingredient is critical to its cleaning performance.February 21, 2011 11:06 pm at 11:06 pm #743881popa_bar_abbaParticipant
Thanks.February 22, 2011 3:29 am at 3:29 am #743882cherrybimParticipant
hello99 – “You have not answered how you can quote Rav Grodzinsky as an unquestioned fact and ignore Reb Moshe arguing.”
Show me where I have done that and show me where I indicated that I follow Rav Chaim Ozer’s p’sak on gelatin over Rav Moshe’s.February 22, 2011 4:21 am at 4:21 am #743883
All proofs from past poskim concerning non-kosher soap is not valid bizman hazeh , because even if there were a non-kosher fat in the soap, in our times the process entails a chemical transformation that renders (excuse the pun) the soap a non-fat entity.
There are similar items and foods used today that start out with a non-kosher ingredient but the chemical transformation allows it for kosher use.”February 22, 2011 1:09 pm at 1:09 pm #743884charliehallParticipant
“sponges should not be manufactured on shabbos “
The overwhelming fraction food processing facilities in the US that produce products under rabbinical supervision run 7 days a week. As do most farms. Unless you live off the grid and raise all your own food, you can’t avoid benefitting from Shabat activity. And the poskim for all the major kashrut agencies have no problem with this because they are mostly non-Jews working mostly for non-Jews.February 22, 2011 3:33 pm at 3:33 pm #743885cherrybimParticipant
hello99: Nu, so state your case?February 22, 2011 10:04 pm at 10:04 pm #743886
I think my case is self-evident. You stated that transformation renders a non-kosher entity into a kosher one, but Igros Moshe YD 2:23 and 27 says that it does not. He also clearly equates gelatin from a temea with that from a neveila.
Let’s here your case.February 23, 2011 6:12 am at 6:12 am #743887
nuFebruary 24, 2011 7:13 am at 7:13 am #743888
cherrybim: do I interpret your silence as a concession?
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