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Ok I know everyone here is from different situations so maybe someone can help.
I don’t want to get into too much detail but basically I have this friend who has a hard life to put it simply. Her mother has issues mentally that she refuses to take care of (I’m not sure if she even sees it) and abuses her emotionally….her father is out of the picture.
She has a shrink that she talks to and all. Does anyone have any advice on how I could help her get through this period of her life. Thank G-d my parents are amazing people and I don’t have any problems with them, so it’s true I don’t really know how to feel in her place when she tells me things that her mother did to her, I don’t understand that she still loves her in some small part of her.
And yes there’s more to it then this. But any advice on how to help her? How to give her support – emotionally and everything else, how to just help her in every way?????
Thanks a million in advance!!!!!!!!
Give her some hugs and be there for her to talk to.
im in the same boat as your friend basically…or was…whatever. its in Ami Issue #30 😀 but anyway…basically what you can do is listen. just listen to her. be her outlet. depending on your relationship you can offer her clear and direct advice that you think would be beneficial. I would suggest, from personal experience, that this friend of yours should see a therapist. I didn’t and i had problems that I’m still dealing with.
as far as what she should do…she should try and get out. seriously, if she feels emotionally abused, then her life comes first and she should get out. she can worry about her mother once she is healthy. IDK how old she is, but maybe she can work and move out or something…dorm school if shes still in high school…something. but she should definitely get out.
This next bit is gonna sound harsh, but if her relationship with her mother is such that she is both fully dependent on her mother while being abused by her mother, something has to change. somethings eventually gonna give. either shes gonna snap or one day her mother is gonna do something that they will both regret. i speak from experience. she should try and distance herself from her mother as much as possible. because as independent as possible. again i dont know her age so i cant offer specifics, but it is imperative that the relationship change.
have her over to your house as much as you can. obviously your life comes before hers so dont invite her in if its going to be an emotional or any other kind of burden, but take her in as much as you can. provide a refuge from her mother, she needs that more than anything. an escape. if i think of more ill post it…but that’s right off the top of my head
I find that the most encouraging thing to do is simply listening. Let her cry on your shoulder, hug her, soothe her with comforting and encouraging words.
BTW, PLEASE make sure you don’t get TOO emotionally involved. Don’t think about her and her difficul situation all day.
Hatzlaca, and may Hashem repay you for your tremendous chessed.
SB, how old is your friend?
“she has a shrink that she talks to”. )))- guys does anyone know what a shrink is???
I think its a psychologist. be there for her and show her that you care for her sake- not because you wanna be part of the “hock” and hear her garbage but you really care about her as a person.
sounds like my family,
I don’t really deal with my mother though and if she starts abusing me or talks crazy then I either get upset at her or just hang up
Moshiach please come
A shrink is a psychologist.
yes sister bear she won’t change unless she’s dragged kicking and screaming and force fed her medicine
“and she doesn’t want to leave her home for complicated reasons”
I can guess what those complicated reasons are because that’s why I never left my home. Life became manageable after a while, but it wasn’t worth it. She should get out. Whatever the issues are, she stands only to lose by staying with an abusive parent.
I know how the process goes. I lived with it for 16 years. They have a fight, her mother says some very hurtful things, or does something that leaves your friend emotionally hurt in some way. Then, after an hour, a day, a week…whatever, her mother finds some way of making it up to her. She buys her something nice, takes her to a restaurant, tells her that its nit her fault…she just has a mental illness…and the whole cycle starts again. I used to do all that. It would escalate in a 3 year cycle eventually culminating in my mother’s hospitalization. She would come home and we would start again.
2 weeks after she would come home she would hurt me in some way, and then a week later she would make up for it. Then again. And again with increasing frequency until her next hospitalization. A truly vicious cycle. One that cannot be broken. Trust me on that.
I gritted my teeth and bore it because I had no choice at the time, but at 16 I had had enough. I severed all ties with her. I haven’t spoken a word to her since around September 3 years ago.
I’m not going to advocate that course of action for your friend because I don’t know enough details about her specific situation, but she MUST distance herself from her mother in some way. They cannot maintain their current relationship. She will only keep getting hurt like this. Like I said in the article, her mother isn’t the only one affected by her mental illness. Your friend can develop problems of her own. I know, because I developed some personality problems as a result of the abuse to which I was subjected.
Her mother clearly has no desire to get better because she refuses to acknowledge that she has a problem in the first place. It is a waste of time staying with such a person, or maintaining a close emotional bond. I’m not broadly condemning the mentally ill to a life of loneliness devoid of love. There are plenty of people with mental illnesses who have very happy marriages and wonderful families, but that is because they acknowledge they have a disorder, the accept it, and they get help. I have a friend who is mentally ill. I have to deal with this friend’s cycles often, but i don’t mine because this particular friend is aware of the disorder, has accepted it, and is willing to treat it. Unless the patient is willing to be treated, and acknowledges their problem, they cannot be helped. Mental illness cannot be forcibly cured. All those asylums where people sent their crazy uncles are proof positive.
As for her being too passive, I was the same way. I used to love my mother, so I took all her garbage in stride, never saying a word to protest. Until one day, she gave me 20 dollars for a cab. I didn’t take the 20 dollars. I threw it on the floor at my door. 20 minutes later she walks into my room and starts yelling madly that I should give the 20 dollars back. This was after I had stopped talking to her. She’s standing a foot away from it and she doesn’t see it. So she runs over to my bed, where I was lying, and starts punching me in the face and choking me. So I crawled under my covers and waited for her to stop.
5 minutes later it was over. But this had set a precedent, and it happened twice more in that month. By time number four I had had enough. So I kept a belt near my bed, and the next time she walked in and started punching me, I reached for the belt and whacked her as hard as I could on the back and in the face. She didn’t touch me for 6 months. Then one day she walks into my room and starts unplugging my computer and taking it. So I shoved her, as gently as I could, out of my room. She started punching me in the face again. So I shoved her, as hard as I could out of my room. She clipped a doorpost on the way out. She never touched me again.
To those of you who are reading this, I don’t care if you judge me, because as far as I was concerned it was pikuach nefesh, and makeh av v’em is not yehareg v’al yaavor.
DISCLAIMER: I am in no way advocating the use of violence against a parent. The above anecdote was recounted simply to make a point.
Back on point. The reason she felt it was OK to punch me in the face and choke me is because she was physically stronger than me, and I had never fought back before when she physically abused me. As soon as her image of her strength was shattered, she never touched me again. From what you said, your friend’s mother only emotionally abuses her. The reason why she does it is because your friend takes it. If your friend fought back (not physically) then her mother would realize that she is NOT an emotional pincushion, that your friend can dish it as well as she can take it, and she will back off. Obviously any kind of close relationship with her mother will be out of the question at that point, but trust me. A close relationship with an abusive parent can never work. She should phase her mother out of her life as much as possible. There is no other alternative. It can only get worse.
Bomb i am so sorry about all that you had to put up with i think you were wise to distance yourself from your mother, you are a stronger person for having survived all that, stay strong.
I saw no alternative at the time, and I see no alternative for her friend based on the information provided.
wow bomb,
you did the right thing
The same thing happened in my situation (it wasn’t conducive for me to stay there)
bomb- you sound like an amazing person who really tried everything you could to make it work for you and her. I dont nec think sister’s situation is the same but you might think it is knowing what you went through but it might not be.
a physcologist is called a shrink. do you know why?
I’m just going on what i understood. If I am corrected, I don’t mind modifying my advice 🙂
bomb, I admire you for your courage, and like others here, I believe you did the right thing. Every situation is different, so SB’s friend may or may not use your method, but just seeing how others deal with these kinds of things give others strength and ideas of how to cope better.
Bombmaniac –
I’m so sorry for all the pain and anguish you have suffered at the hand of your mother. Know that you have soul-sisters out in the world who’s hearts are bleeding for you and are championing your courage to get on with your life and come out of your nightmarish ordeal as intact and as sane as possible.
No one can and should ever judge you and do not allow anyone to play those head games with you. If anyone ever gives you the line, “You know you should understand… blah, blah, blah, ” I’m sure you’ve heard it all from the well-intentioned, but clueless peanut gallery–tell them very nicely and calmly that when they will be in your shoes and in your identical situation if they think they could do it any better then let them.
I think the best thing that you could have done is to remove yourself from the toxic and dangerous environment you were in.
I hope you have a strong support system to lean on and someone who can be a nuturing, mother figure to you and shower you with all the love that you deserve.
Wishing you menuchas hanefesh and success in everything you do.
by the way, on the subject of problems…ill tell you what problems i had…just because it ties into the part where she emotionally distances herself from her mother.
i waited too long before i severed all ties, and the way i did it was to stop talking to her. i have not spoken to my mother, not a single word, in 3 years. your friend though probably would have a problem with that. my parents divorced when i was born and ive been living with my grandparents (now only my grandmother) and my mother. so my mother was never an essential part of my life because i could always and often did have to rely on my grandmother, both emotionally and financially. your friend probably doesnt have that luxury. she probably depends on her mother for all of her material needs.
when i did it (and this is a problem she will have to watch for. it should not preclude her from distancing herself from her mother, but she will need to monitor herself. i would suggest that she sees a therapist every so often.) it took a huge amount of…idk how to phrase it…emotional energy? to close that connection to my mother. for a year afterward i was incapable of feeling emotion. everything bounced off me to the point where i had to stop myself from ever telling someone that ploni had died because i would smile after i said it. (i was smiling because i felt good about being able to deliver news that someone didnt know…not because i was happy that the person was dead.) only last year did i regain my ability to feel proper emotions, but even now theyre a little…lacking. now i feel…but sometimes the wrong emotion. so she will have to be careful about that.
as for the how? well, i think ive established that cutting off all communication is out of the question, so i would suggest that she either be as busy as she can, or appear as busy as she can. that way she has no time to have any heart to hearts with her mother…no time to chat…no time to talk…her material needs will be provided for, but the emotional exchanges will be avoided. they will naturally grow apart eventually.
as for my friends. they took it all in stride 😛 i was kinda surprised. one day i just dumped the whole mess on them and they just took it in stride 🙂 i dont know how strong your friend is, how much she can take before she feels angry…and if she does feel angry would she show it. (that bit is important because if she never expresses anger you could be doing damage and she would never react) so. assuming she can handle pretty much anything you say, be as candid as you an be about whatever is on your mind. dont dance around the issue when youre talking to her. doing so only reinforces the problem. if she sees you feeling awkward while discussing her situation, the situation grows bigger in her mind. by being open and candid and not mincing words you minimize the problem and help her make decisions.
the only specific advice that my friends gave me was to either go to B”M after HS or college just to get out of the house. i did neither. i got jobs. (not steve…i detest apple ::)) my friends kept bringing the subject up, among others that i didnt want to hear, and sometimes i DID get angry, but im pretty sure they saw that. (which is good…like i said above) so basically, if you feel that something would be beneficial to her situation, keep pushing it. dont be afraid to broach any subject that you feel must be discussed. if she gets angry at you, then back off, but try again later if you feel its important. i would push her to work on her assertiveness because right now it seems that that is the most important tool she could have. she cant keep taking all the trash shes been taking like a sheep.
obtw mods…you can send sister bear my email address…if you want it
bomb- you are a hero!!!!!
make a comic book about me…
why a comic book?
It was pretty painful. a month later i was severely depressed for 2 weeks…
Here’s the attitude I adopted. It’s a bit callous, but it is what it is and it works. Basically whatever my mother says is of no consequence at all because I have the upper hand. I’m her son and I took myself away from her. So I see her as a broken shell of a human being whose own son wants nothing to do with her. It’s harsh, but it works. If she views every word that comes out of her mother’s mouth as absolutely inconsequential then she won’t take her mother’s bait. If her mother says something nasty or argumentative, she should just walk away knowing in her heart that she is a better and stronger person than her mother, because she is.
I would suggest that she read this thread. She should know that she’s not the only one who has had such problems. It helps. Show her my Ami article, show her this thread…it helps.
Good job on being candid 🙂
As for going over to her house, don’t feel bad about that. She doesn’t want you over at her house, because she herself doesn’t want to be at her house. Why would she want to be there if she can be at your house? My friends stopped coming over a long time ago and I’m fine with that. I would much rather be at their houses and so would they 🙂
You were right to tell her not to return the stuff herself. There is never any reason to apologize for buying necessities, and like you said, if her mother doesn’t like it she can return the stuff herself.
Her mother has no right over he stuff. Not her license, not her sheets, not her books, nothing. My mother was and still is the same way. She used to say “I bought it for you, I an take it when I want.” Which, if you think about it, is a dangerous way of thinking because it sounds like “I gave you life, I can take it away.” Your friend should understand if she does not already that what was given is her’s and NOT her mother’s. Once something is given it cannot be taken back. If i give my friend $50 for his wedding, I have no right to later ask for it back.
My mother used to steal the books I got from the library, read them, and damage them. I ended up owing the library $500 because of her. She used to take my medicine too. I’m allergic to mosquito bites, so I NEED Benadryl. She used to take my Benadryl. So I bugged my grandmother to buy me a safe. I kept all my stuff in that safe. Problem solved.
“Do you think that her line of thinking is correct? That if she listens and does everything her mother says her life will be better?”
LOL no. Would you say the same about cancer? “If I just let it have a few cells it may just be so grateful it’ll go away without chemo.”
Absolutely not! First of all because her mother has no right to abuse her. No human being has the right to abuse another. Any kind of abuse, even for a second is wrong, and should be fought against. Your friend is a human being! Would she volunteer for a month of abuse if it were her choice? Would she do it for a million dollars? No. There is no reason for her to take any abuse. EVER. I used to think like that, and it got me nowhere. If she does that, her mother will just get more and more abusive. Right now I would imagine her mother feels pretty powerful. The most important thing is to shatter that image of power. Her mother needs to be brought down from her high horse, so to speak.
Regardless, it is never a good idea to bend over and take abuse like a dog. She should not get used to taking abuse. No. She should fight back against it even if she only has a day left. It benefits her in two ways:
1) That she doesn’t get abused…that’s always a good thing.
2) She works on her assertiveness and realizes that she is a human being, and that no human being should ever be treated the way she is being treated.
It’s good practice for the future. So no. She should NOT just lay low and take it. I’m not saying that she should look for provocation, but if her mother gets abusive she should either walk away…let her mother go and have a nice life…or if she is not ready to walk out of her mother’s life yet she should tell her mother as assertively as possible that her mother is being abusive and that the way she treats her is disgusting and not befitting a cockroach, let alone a human being, and walk away. No crying, no storming away in a huff, just say that in a matter of fact and assertive strong voice and walk away.
Personally I think that walking away while not saying a word is a better option, but that’s only going to work if your friend is truly ready to break from her mother. Her mother’s words need to have absolutely no effect on her before she is emotionally ready to walk away from abuse. Otherwise she will hear it anyway, absorb it, but never express her anger, and compartmentalize it. That;s damaging. Like I said above, for her to be able to take her mother’s garbage in silence, she needs to truly understand and believe that she is a better person and on a higher plane than her mother. She needs to think of it as a homeless drunk on the street shouting insults at her.
Just to give you an idea…my mother will not attend my wedding. She will not know when I am dating. She will not be there for the birth of my children. She will not be there when they get married. I will not say kaddish or sit shiva for her when she dies. She is dead to me.
I’m not saying that your friend has to take it that far…and I’m not going to advocate that. But the break needs to be clean and final. No looking back. No regrets. At whatever level she decides to break, it needs to be final.
One other thing. She says she hates her mother. Hate is an emotion. That emotion ties her to her mother. It needs to go beyond that if she wants to break from her mother. It needs to go beyond hate. I would suggest indifference.
“Quick question: did you move out of the house once you cut off all your ties with her or you lived in the house with her and just stopped talking?”
i make enough money to move out, but the jobs arent stable so i have not yet moved out. my grandmother covers rent though so i depend on my mother for nothing.
“I think I’m going to tell her to read this”
please do!
yeah, she obviously cant cut all ties, but she needs to detach herself emotionally from her mother. IMO, in the case of an abusive parent, the option of reconciliation must be off the
table because that means that she is still emotionally invested in her mother, and that is damaging. there is no reconciliation with an abusive parent. she should take what she needs from her mother in terms of money, but not give anything emotionally.
also she should try and find another way to pay for the wedding…cuz yeah…first of all her mother probably wont…and secondly because that will just make her “owe” her mother…
i dont have any siblings.
Wow. I used to have a friend like that, sister bear. Unfortunately, she ended up abusing ME and refused to get help – which resulted in me dropping her.
Bomb, I must say, you’re truly amazing. I’d suggest you deal with kids at risk. You know precisely what should be done, and your approach is very healthy.
“Her mother clearly has no desire to get better because she refuses to acknowledge that she has a problem in the first place. It is a waste of time staying with such a person, or maintaining a close emotional bond. ” – Exactly the case with my friend. Boy is this true!
Sister, PLEASE make sure you are still able to go on with your life. Don’t obsess over her life. I assume you’re in your late teens (forgive me if I’m wrong), which is pretty young to absorb such kind of abuse even though not directed at you. Also, make sure your relationship with her is healthy. Don’t get too involved. If necessary, contact a therapist. Please get guidance from daas Torah on how to deal with this issue. Hatzlacha Rabba!
“Bomb, I must say, you’re truly amazing. I’d suggest you deal with kids at risk. You know precisely what should be done, and your approach is very healthy.”
i would…point me in the right direction 🙂
Not exactly sure what you mean…
I think you’re heading in the right direction…:) I was really impressed with your answer to the guy who posted that he’s out of yeshiva (on the off the derech thread). I truly do think you’d be great. I’m not in the line, obviously, but unfortunately, klal yisroel would benefit from somebody like you. Also, these kids tend to trust those who have undergone abuse themselves and understand where they’re coming from.
Bombmanic, I agree with you 100% that a victim MUST cut off from the abuser –
i cut off from my mother b/c of her seeming mental illness (although it is well hidden & never been diagnosed)…
I stopped the relationship 10 yrs ago. and i feel finally safe ,secure & stable.
there are moments i miss her & remember…but i do not regret my decision
“Not exactly sure what you mean…
I think you’re heading in the right direction…:)”
no i mean if you know of any places which would take me on in such a role…id gladly help out
“So you’re basically saying that she should have no emotional contact with her mother?”
thats what i think. there are those who disagree…some say she should try to reconcile her differences…but in my opinion thats just like liberal idiots who say that we need to educate the terrorists into stop bombing israel…i dont see any alternative. she should cut emotional ties. people, feel free to disagree with me, but i think thats the right course of action.
Sister: It sure was hard. Glad to hear you’re doing ok. I agree with bomb. Cutting all emotional ties is the only way to deal with an abuser. After dropping that friend, I hated her. Believe me, it’s so draining wasting your emotions on somebody who abused you. Cutting ALL emotional ties was my only solution. As of now, I rarely think about her, and don’t care about her (you may think it’s cruel, but this is the only way I can lead a normal life now). Hatzlacha!
“What about Project Chazon (Rabbi Mechanic’s thing),”
Never heard any of it, but why not give it a try? Or perhaps you can contact Rabbi Z. Wallerstien. Good luck.
I agree with bombmaniac that she should disconnect emotionally, HOWEVER its nearly impossible living within close proximity to the mother never mind IN The same house! THerefore, it is my expert opinion that everyone who has to escape abuse and rebuild their life should be physically distanced from the abuser.
She must and should get out of her mothers house. She can find someone else to live with. AS long as she remains in there she will be a vunerable victim just as she has been her whole life.
She must start a new beginning.
FIrst thing that she is responsible to do though would be to recognize the gravity and severity of the effects of the abuse and emotional debilitation its causing her. Then when she realizes something must change, she should reach out to an older mentor who can help her find a solution. The ONLY solution is to move out. Move to another house to live in.
ideally yes. absolutely.
Bombmaniac, I know you’re strong enough with yourself that you don’t need my 2cents or approval, however I just want to tell you that me and my husband read your story above about what you did to defend yourself against your mother’s violent attacks,and we believe you did the right thing. I am sure it was uncomfortable for you to do it.
I want to tell you that one technique I have implemented in my healing is what we call
RAH
R=realize/recognize (the situation for what it was)
A=accept it happened
H=heal, and move on. Throw it all overboard and don’t look back.
I grew up with a antisocial, angry, violent, emotional abusive mother also. On one hand she was sometimes nice, and exceptionally loving and sincere. And then she would turn…
I heard once from a professor in a course in psychology I took in college that this is the worse form of abuse. To be sometimes nice and sometimes not. Its like a dog that is sometimes approachable and sometimes snaps and attacks.
Its psychologically damaging!
The moment I shut the door on my mother, (psychologically & emotionally) I finally felt safe. Its sad but this is the way it has to be. I will not tolerate her abuse any longer, either.
yup.
its also why a lot of women stay with abusive men. the men abuse them then make it up to them and they say “i cant leave him…tru he does X Y and Z to me, but he really loves me”
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