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Mazal: I don’t no why ur in such a bad mood, I hope everythings ok but that’s it I’m don’t with the coffee room. Good bye everyone
moish- what kind of question is that? They clean his 25 rooms and 15 bathrooms! Duh!
syriansephardi: i ain’t your brother, i got no sephardi blood in me!!!
moish01: ha you should see my house!!!!
Mazal: woah.
Moish: that was really not nice, I was very very insulted. I think its time for me to leave the CR. And NO I am not that type of person I can give u a 3 page answer on what u commented but I’m soo not in the mood.
Bye everyone, it was fun while it lasted
beacon: ahhhh!!!! thanx!!!!
moazel77: my apoliges for ruining your thread!!!
syriansephardi: oh come on stay!!!! why is everyone doing this!!! your real fun in the cr!!!
Personally, I feel that in a two-income situation, if there is no hired cleaning help, the husband should be as responsible for household chores as the wife. They are BOTH coming home exhausted after a workday.
I agree and so does my husband. We split our roles pretty evenly and it works out well. I do more of the cleaning (non specific time based stuff) and he does more of the time based things (like taking out the garbage) because he is much more responsible than I am. I would totally forget and have garbage piling up 🙂
Wolf, I normally agree with you but its not about the husband HELPING, its about the husband taking on his fair share of responsibility, which is based on work situations and whatnot.
mazal,i think its gr8 when the family can afford the household help to get it. on the whole it sounds gr8. but ask the kids that were raised in such a home, how it was for them as adults when they had to keep their home clean. they won’t necessarily have household help. was it hard for them to manage etc. we were not raised with household help like that and we learned to help on all ends. i guess a person must be very careful when they decide on geting help. the children should be taught to help out whenever possible or it will be hard for them later on. just my thought.
i never comment on the coffee room, but this time i really want to. i grew up with a cleaning lady….bith of my parents worked all day and there needed to be someone to take care of the kids, so we had a babysitter/cleaning lady. i dont remember ever having a stealing issue or a kashrus issue. when i got married i was in school, and i told my husband that as long as i wasnt sitting home all day, we needed someone to help out. i b”h got pregnant right away and had a hard pregnancy, so we increased the amount of time we had help. obviously i didnt trust her right away, but now i see that i can….i have left jewelry, cash, and other expensive things out and they were all there when i came home. i hate the idea of a goy raising my children, which is why i am only working part time. my cleaning lady will pick up my son from play group and keep an eye on him until i get home. i can only think of one reason why people will insist that you can not trust cleaning help….its called racism. if you have such a problem with it, hire someone jewish to clean for you. believe it or not, there are frum people who clean houses. then you avoid all concerns, and you can give a yid parnasa 🙂
Many people have babysitters in their home all day. These are goyishe babysitters and nobody’s checking up on them. you can tell them all you want not to use the oven, but why should they listen if the chance of being caught is zero?
Jothar,
I’m curious about something. If you worked for an employer and, as part of your job, you were told to never, ever go into the conference room, would you go if there was no chance of your being caught and you wanted something in the room?
The Wolf
i can only think of one reason why people will insist that you can not trust cleaning help….its called racism. if you have such a problem with it, hire someone jewish to clean for you. believe it or not, there are frum people who clean houses. then you avoid all concerns, and you can give a yid parnasa 🙂
I don’t think I am racist – but your comment sort of implies you are. I don’t really trust anyone (except for my family and friends) to be alone in my house. The temptation is often far too great for people. Many cleaning ladies are poor and taking a few quarters wont necessarily matter to YOU but it might really help them out. Are there honest people out there? Sure. Are there honest people who give in to temptation? Yes. I don’t think most people are theives by nature, but if you put someone in that situation…
I’m curious about something. If you worked for an employer and, as part of your job, you were told to never, ever go into the conference room, would you go if there was no chance of your being caught and you wanted something in the room?
Wolf, I try to follow my employers rules. Sometimes though, I give in to temptation (and lets say use the internet for more than my lunch hour). The difference is, with kashrut, a small transgression makes something traif – I can always make up my time by staying late.
SJS,
I’ll address your point a bit later. I’m waiting for Jothar’s response.
The Wolf
When my kids were little i got JEWISH cleaning help in the house a few times…it was really nice!
Asdfghjkl thanx I had fun while it lasted but….. Nice meetin ya!
Yes, Syrian, you will be missed! Unless you change your mind of course.
I’m not going yet bc now I’m too bored at home lol.
Moish: don’t go calling ppl things, its not the truth so don’t tell me the truth hurts bc its not the truth
so then tell me where i went wrong. and if it weren’t true you wouldn’t have reacted that way. so there must be at least one tiny part that hit home (even if the WHOLE picture wasn’t accurate)
syrian,
your boredom is our gain. 🙂
Asfghjkl: teacher in service!!
Charlie brown: thanx 🙂
Moish: “unless u r one of those…” I already said before how appreciative I am of them. Don’t go saying its discusting to say maid, the agenceys my mother calls are called MAID agenceys…if u don’t like it, then don’t say maid!! And that’s not true that I wouldn’t be defensive if it wasn’t true I would be defensive eiter way!!!
Wolfish, My apologies for ignoring you. I wasn’t monitoring this thread.
Wolfish, when the cat’s away, the mice come and play. Look at all the scandals being uncovered now because people thought they wouldn’t get caught. Aroid, Madoff, etc.
Would you eat in a restaurant if there’s no mashgiach except for the guy who turns on the pilot light, but they tell you “Don’t worry, the goyishe cook knows not to do treif”?
Halachicly, goyim have no ne’emanus. If you don’t check up, your house is halachicly treif.
Allow me to share with you some stories I heard first-hand or experienced. These aren’t someone’s friend’s friend stories.
I have a friend of mine who didn’t monitor his babysitter.Even though he’s a kollel guy and should have known to be more machmir on halacha than that, He assumed she would listen to him. One day a friend passes by and hears his microwave going off. Busted!
This poor shlemazel then starts checking up regularly on his babysitter. (One posek I know recommends 5-6 random checks per month.) One day he’s nannycamming his baysitter. She sees her cooking something in a pot. She spots him coming up to investigate through the window. She quickly stuffs the pot in the fridge. When he leaves she says “That was close!” Busted!
These were just 2 times that they happened to catch her. Clearly there was no fear factor.
A second friend of mine is makpid on kashrus. He was very clear with the babysitter that she shouldn’t bring in outside food. After she leaves, he dumpster dives through his garbage can. He finds a packet of hot cocoa and marshmallows. He confronts the babysitter, who says “This isn’t food!” She never shows up again, probably because she thought she was nannycammed.
The same 2nd friend used a babysitter a third friend (also a kollel guy) recommended. “Don’t worry”, my 3rd friend says, “She doesn’t eat!” Well, my second friend hires her. Sure enough, she comes in with her own food. She doesn’t eat because she brings her own food. Busted!
I used to share a babysitter with someone at their house. During the summer, I was stuck with her in my house. I checked up regularly. So one week I can’t check up during the daytime. That week I find a glob of cheese in our fleishigs microwave. Busted!
My sister was in someone’s house. The hostess wasn’t home. She saw the cleaning lady take out the milchigs frying pan and fry herself up a hot dog. Busted!
The only people who don’t have horror stories are those who don’t check.
But let’s get back to nannycamming. If you nannycam your babysitter, you will often be surprised at what goes on when the owner is not home, DESPITE the fact that they know you don’t want them to do it, eg hitting the kids, etc. So even if your posek holds that there is no kashrus issue with a goy being at home all day with no supervision or random checking (good luck finding one who holds like that), random checking to keep your babysitter honest is recommended for your kids’ sake. As the Gemara says, “Kabdeihu vechashdeihu”. As Reagan said, trust but verify. I have friends (again, first-hand) who nannycammed their babysitter and were shocked at the neglect and abuse their “trusted” babysitter did when nobody was looking.
maids vs housekeepers: inherently they both mean the same thing but housekeeper is just nice. it’s the same way janitor evolved into maintenance man.
syrian: calling a housekeeper a maid is not so nice, it’s not totally wrong but we are better than that…on another note I have taken it upon myself to not use the word j dub anymore. we know what it means and it has a negative spin on it and even though we ALL use it…doesnt mean it’s right. same thing with maid. even though thats what they are…housekeeper is just a nicer spin on it. and even though 90% of the time they looking at us and it’s yo no se they sabe real good what maid means, it’s just a kiddush hashem. thats it. even though we know they don’t care, the big guy upstairs does.
Mod 72 thanx!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh and mazal, moish, and anyone else who disagrees- we don’t say maid infront of her obviously! (Just telling u that if that’s what u were thinking)
no that’s not what i was thinking. but i’ll keep it to myself because i doubt my commenting would change your approach. it’ll just get you mad.
“Always keep in mind the Chazal Jothar pointed out:
Rubam begezel “
Not rubam… kulam.
Moish: good keep it in
Mchemtob: I know they understand EVERYTHING their big sketches, but If I’m in the kitchen with my mother n the HOUSEKEEPER (happy everyone?) Is in their too no I would not go saying infront of her face “the maid….”
I never heard anyone say the maitnance guy.
And actually mchemtob, I hardly say maid I say chadameh but noone on here nose what that means except for u…
i do check up on my cleaning lady (i actually dont leave her alone all that often) and i dont have any horror stories…..
well chadameh is better than other things my friends day worker thinks her nickname is dibbe and that is means pretty.
mazal: the mods try to do thier best, if you think something is wrong, all you have to do is let them know.$
Just to clarify – kabdeihu vechashdeihu applies to EVERYBODY, including frum yidden, not just goyim. It has nothing to do with looking down on goyim. The story the gemara brings to back up this point is with a frum Jew. Another gemara says that a “yochid bedoro” was someone who was so holy that people lent him money without witnesses.
Ames: that’s right!!
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