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I am really struggling with the following thing that I see all the time and I was wondering if anyone has any real thoughtful comments to help me out
I live in monsey and many times I am at a light with a long line, The left turning lane to the left of the going straight lane is always basically empty. Even though the waiting line is at least 90% yidden, other yidden have no problem driving up the turning lane, cutting back into the straight going lane after the traffic line is solid, as if their time is more precious than everyone else’s.
Obviously they aren’t displaying any emergency lights.They have a pregnant woman in the backseat who they are rushing to her OB/GYN.
There are some (only some) yidden that don’t understand
(1) choshen mishpat- you are stealing the zechusim and time of the other yidden who were in the line ahead of you. I have seen R’ Shlomo Zalman and heard R’ Gershon Ribner talk about this. If someone doesn’t abide by this, they are simply not frum yidden as they aren’t keeping choshen mishpat, they should consider becoming baalei teshuva and start enjoying an orthodox lifestyle.
(2) derech eretz and middos- If a person only thinks about himself and his time and not others, he is simply lacking in his fundamentals as a yid. He should furthermore consider the above lifestyle change.R’ Gershon Ribner did offer a diyun l’chaf zchus, that if one is able to cut into traffic in a smooth way that doesn’t affect the flow of traffic, then perhaps he’s not doing anything wrong since this in no way affects others. Perhaps these guys can do that as well?
@ajewfrommonsey:
1. They might actually have an emergency (even if not medical) or the like, and therefore feel justified in cutting ahead.
2. They might think that they can cut in when the driver of the car behind their entry point is distracted/on their phone, so that it doesn’t cost anyone else time anyways because they would have had to wait for the guy in front of them in that straight lane to “wake up” and move.This is not unique to Monsey; it happens elsewhere. It happens to me in NYC all the time when trying to get off a highway. Goyim are also doing this so if I were you I would keep in mind that some people (jewish, goyim) do whatever they want without any regard for other people. It’s what it is; and you just keep doing the right thing and you’ll be OK
My first thought when reading this was how to דן you לכף זכות for saying לשון הרע on a huge community. What I came up with is that you were upset about something and needed to get it off your chest. You did this without considering how many people from Monsey you may be offending.
This isn’t something unique to Monsey, I saw it happen somewhere else, and the thought going through my mind was the driver was trying to get from Point A to Point B as efficiently as possible and just wasn’t thinking about how they were acting.
Do you think these people would ever cut the line at the supermarket because “their time is more precious than everyone else’s”?
in your case the kaf z’chus is simple: its the non jews fault.
since the left turning lane is almost always empty. that means that is wasn’t necessary to build a dedicated left turning lane in the first place. that space would have been better served as a regular road (both straight going and turning)
since the non jews have decided to implement חוקי סדום on the roads, any fighting between jews that result from this is on their heads.
EZ. If you are hov you should be allowed to cut in front of a single driver. The RY in TV held that you should always yield to a bus as they are rabim. I dont remember if it was RAYHP or RNHQ. But the bottom line is yield to the higher occupancy. My ancestor was RLYB so its is in my blood to be melamed zechus.
You don’t have to give everyone the benefit of the doubt stop gaslighting yourself. Being nice isn’t the only emotion
ishpurim> you should be allowed to cut in front of a single driver.
The issue of the rabim is appropriate when you are allowed to do that. For example, a bus stopped at a bus stop – you should not go around it if the bus has more people than your car has. But cutting in front should not be allowed. As someone mentioned, most people don’t do it in a human line – because they see humans in front of them. It is lack of basic sechel to understand that there are people inside the cars you are cutting of.
I asked recently a shailah – whether I should yield to an almost empty bus, when I am driving minivan of kids to school. The rav suggested that yes – there is no respect to a bus driver per se, only when he is carrying rabim. I am thinking that slowing him down when he is on the way to pick up rabim or even having a break still affects the rabbim. Anyway, I value a moment when the kids are a captured audience, and I can model good middos for them. I sometimes suggest them counting how many opportunities we get to let someone in the lane in front of us. This almost lead to a crash recently – my daughter while learning to drive, started abruptly braking on a major road attempting to let someone waiting to merge. Maybe if you popularize this middos approach in your locality, things on your road will improve.
PS For those who insist that these people are on the way to the hospital – put a talles and emergency lights so that people understand that you are driving like that for a reason.
But to the original question of dan l’tzad zechus, it is very simple – these people are not at fault, they are amei haaretz, talmidim of amei haaretz. They need to learn Toran and mitzvos. Don’t just judge people by levush.
What exactly is the judgement? The guy has bad midot? He doesn’t care about my time? There’s nothing to judge here. If you’re wondering if you should be upset or let it go, obviously let it go. Not because your assuming he must have had a valid excuse, but because there is no sense in getting upset, especially in this situation. If you’re asking if the guy did the right thing, you clearly already know the answer. Frankly, as long as it’s legal, (there is a dotted line, not solid), it’s allowed. Is it the right thing to do? No. Why are we surprised that people sometimes act selfishly or with some other bad midah?
When I do it, it’s because I spaced out and wound up in the wrong lane, when other people do it, I call it Chillul Hashem driving.
Oh, my hypocrisy!user, so you think it is normal that Jews behave like that? Middos should be discussed in schools and shuls.
fake> When I do it, it’s because I spaced out
when I do it, I make clear that I am wrong – ask to be let in, le someone pass, waive my hat
I already mentioned recently Gemora in Avodah Zorah discusses how to travel in presence of potentially dangerous people – which side to keep on, depending on weapon and inclination, and R Akiva’s trick of telling that you are travelling further and then leaving abruptly …
So, to answer the OP – there were always rude people on the road, and you just need to adjust and make sure you are safe, expecting them to do dangerous stuff.
Also, BK might be relevant here – if you carry a load and then stop abruptly. This might correspond to driving that is unsafe. Is there a discussion somewhere about people who overcome or push others on the road?
“Even though the waiting line is at least 90% yidden…”
This has no bearing on the issue. What’s wrong is wrong, regardless of who is aggrieved.
Aaq, if normal means right, than no it’s not normal. If normal means common or expected, then yes, every Jew struggles with something and fails often. We are not malachim. Catching someone in their weak moment, or picking up and someones general weakness, does not give you the right to “judge” them, wtvr that even means. You can feel bad that they have this bad mida and hope they can overcome it. Let’s be clear, this particular example isn’t that grievous, he made others miss a light? People are wronged on an infinitely higher level daily. Regardless of all this, what’s the nafka Mina, you want to know if you should stop a shiduch with his kids? If he’s kasher l’edut? What are we talking about here?
I’m definitely not an expert on the הלכות of לשון הרע but I was under the impression that the comment was לשון הרע against an entire community, regardless of whether it’s unique to a particular community or the percentage of the community that behaves like that.
If I’m wrong I’ll stand corrected.
So, we have two camps here – horrible and “what’s a big deal”. Maybe this is coming from a debate, or two parallel views – are the mitzvos an exact list of thing to perform or is it a list of training exercises to make us into better people. See Ramban on naval b’rshus Torah, for example.
By the first view, as long as S’A does not mention cutting off cars, you are fine. By the second view, if someone learnt a ganze gemora and still does not have basic middos the moment his face is hidden behind the tinted windows – it is very sad and a siman that his learning was for gornisht. I am not sure, if he is pasul l’edus, but surely not fir shidduch.
You have the satisfaction of knowing that your tolerance will be rewarded in Olam Ha-Ba, while the offenders will be punished.
You don’t have to be Dan lekaf zechjs everyone. Some people behaviour is not ok. And if you don’t differentiate reality for what it is you can’t stand on principle. I think this thread is stretching who you have to give the benefit of the doubt to….it’s not realistic to give it to everyone and rightous anger or being annoyed at someone who cuts people off is human and normal. Being abnormal or trying to control your human nature isn’t healthy. Just be real and true to yourself. When someone does something wrong it’s not necessary good for them not to be held accountable and you allowing them to get away with it doesn’t serve them. Just be human and real
I don’t think most people believe in just doing mitzvos exactly – otherwise, we would not have so many minhagim and chumros and lev ush and hats of certain color that our ancestors were ashamed to wear … But then if a community can enforce a levush standard, why can’t it enforce a derech eretz standard? Put a shomer near intersection and stop everyone in levush who drives inappropriate. Even easier near the stores – put cherem on everyone who is on the phone while their kids are jumping out of the car into a busy parking lot.
Maybe this is same emergency decree – we are trying to save Yidden from assimilation, te rest of Yiddishkeit can wait. For what? Is moschiach supposed to be enforcing middos or is he waiting for us to do our part?
I think at this point where people may actually facing road raid issues etc. it would be best to deny the problem completely and say hat it does not exist in our Torah world.This way we do not have to deal with it.
Issue of loshon hora was legitimately raised here. Loshon horo is not only about damage to a persons involved, but also about maintaining community standards. From this pov, publicizing inappropriate behavior is a right thing to do, not the wrong. So it is not that simple. A good book on the topic with lots of relevant references is R Daniel Feldman False Facts and True Rumors
How bout we all just use common sense and not arbitrary control rules that don’t always apply to reality.
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